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Rodgers is here. scott jennings is here from "the new york times," cnn political analyst julia hirshfield davis. good morning to you all. before we get to the politics of it, let me get to you, jennifer, and the legal issues. michael cohen said the president isn't truthful, he lied about russia. he directed him to make these payments in order to help him win the presidency, to help his campaign. he said he would keep cooperating if wanted and he said, quote, there is a substantial amount of information that they, meaning mueller's investigators, possess that corroborates the fact i'm telling t...

Presentation skills. the stuff he's saying that isn't truthful, most people get the joke about it. >> is it a joke? >> people say how could you say that? you're justifying he's not saying the truth. i'm not. i'm not justifying it. i'm just explaining based on my observation of the president's personality and someone who has worked with him, what he's doing and why he's doing it. and it's been generally effective for him, jim, over the last 45 years. >> but this gets to core issues here. >> i'm not condoning it. >> i know. i'm just asking what the damage is. in a way, you're excusing it by sayi...

>> no. truth isn't truthful. >> the panel is here. they're not weaponizing information. they're weaponizing lies and using to it explain away and to protect this man at all costs regardless of the consequences for anything else. >> that's right. it dates back for donald trump to his pre political days back when he was a celebrity real estate guy. he would assert his truth. trump tower in manhattan is 58 stories tall. it is listed as 68. he just invented ten extra stories because it sounded better so it could be the tallest building in the area. what we're seeing is on this stage where you're s...

Here. it would be black and white a court would say yes, you can subpoena the president? >> yes, 9-zip in the supreme court. they say you can saw a president in a civil case and the president has to respond to it. >> is that why they're negotiating about the terms of this? >> you're assuming they're negotiating. the fact is, mueller has all the cards. attitude end of the day, he's got a grand grand jury subpoena. i think the most they give is to say okay, we'll do this in a conference room at the white house but it's going to be under oath. it's going to be videotaped because this is a guy who...

In a civil case and the president has to respond to it. >> is that why they're negotiating about the terms of this? >> you're assuming they're negotiating. the fact is, mueller has all the cards. attitude end of the day, he's got a grand grand jury subpoena. i think the most they give is to say okay, we'll do this in a conference room at the white house but it's going to be under oath. it's going to be videotaped because this is a guy who is going to claim even the transcript isn't truthful and will even claim that the videotape isn't really him. >> that is -- i had not encountered that. bill ...