We haven't seen anything like this in a very long time. >> andrew, is it fair to say that jay powell was trying to reprise a bit of what paul volcker did in the early aibts and yet without the impact that paul volcker had, maybe having a really negative impact on the economy? >> i think that's exactly right. what he's trying to do to some degree is sort of jawbone his way out of this, rather than actually raise interest rates to 10-plus percent. if he can say i'm on this path, can he slow things down literally almost verbally by using the bully pulpit and businesses start to say i'm not going ...