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talented and a good communicator, well, this was the practice for 100 years, it was only nancy pelosi who changed it. she changed it because of what happened to john bane other, and what happened to john baner is because of that rule, he got run out of the speakership, i think kevin mccarthy has a good chance of being run out of the speakership. >> well, matt gaetz was saying there's nothing left that kevin mccarthy can give, he's giving away the store. >> why is matt gaetz' commentary here? >> we've been listening to him. >> the best thing we had this week was watching this bafoon fall on his face. >> has he fallen on his face? >> this was a negotiating victory for the serious conservative, they were the ones
>> i feel like this movement has been coming for a while now, every since 2015 when the freedom caucus drove john boehner from town. the far right of the republican party and the centrists who are governing and seen as pragmatic, they are waiting to see who's going to have the reckoning. and i feel like the trump years delayed this inner party battle that is going to have to happen at some point and is happening now. but clearly it's copping to a head right now, and it's going to get uglier before they figure out how to sort of have this kumbaya moment and move forward. >> i hear you on that. that's what's interesting about what everyone's bracing for tomorrow. it's a quote attributed to everyone from chairman mao to john mccain, it's always darkest before it goes totally black.
he's running out of cards to deal with at this point, and the open question is, can he move these ultra conservative members or not? then there has to be a decision, because right now everyone says they're going to keep doing what they're doing. that's a problem. >> it may be math. if they have the votes and their position is, they don't want ken mccarthy, the one thing he can't surrender is not being himself. thanks for your time. >> you got it. >> let's bring in two political experts, obama campaign expert chai komanduri, and brendan buck, who worked for two house speakers, for john baner and later serving paul ryan in that role, and who's counting, but he might have been taller than both of them. welcome to both of you. how are you doing, brendan? >> good. it was a long day, interesting day for sure. >> we wanted to come to you for exactly the photos i showed and the reasons. you really know how this works.
with this guy. you know, we can do whatever we want. you know, there's -- basically no one's ever going to be in charge of us. we want to be on tucker carlson? let's do it at mccarthy's expense. >> brendan, do you agree that point from chai? donald rumsfeld said weakness is provocative. i'm curious your final thoughts. >> this is mccarthy as second time trying to be speaker. when john boehner stepped down, he was about to take the gavel and stepped down from the same pressures from the right, and i think you have to look at everything he's done in the last seven years trying to avoid the very scenario we're in right now. made allegiances to the freedom caucus, close to trump, made friends with jim jordan. all to show the right he could be trusted. he's not a conservative type
held the gavel and even when she's out of power. the word leverage came up a lot today with my sources and lawmakers here on the hill because it's the thing that pelosi knows how to wield better than anybody else. you think about the republicans on the other side, john baner, paul ryan, the fact that they had unwielding and unruly conferences around them and they were not able to get control of them, not able to use the leverage to their advantage, contrast with pelosi who was so adapt at understanding the pulse of her caucus, understanding where republicans might need some extra votes and how she could extract something from those moments as well. that's just a sign of just how effective she is. and so the fact that she's staying around, many people have used the word bittersweet to me in talking about this because on the one hand they are losing a leader with so much
she's going to support him for speaker. but sources say there are around two dozen members of the freedom caucus threatening to vote for kevin mccarthy. they have a small majority and they're planning to use it. >> what do they want? >> they want to make it easier for a lawmaker to call a floor vote on ousting a sitting speaker, something that kevin mccarthy is against. it was used over john baner, who eventually resigned. but more demands, they want more representation on the steering committee, which doles other assignments, they have more time to review bills that come to the floor. and speaker mccarthy would have a number of perks, he has a lot of chips to cash in but he might need to cash in every one of them. mccarthy and his allies are confident he'll be able to get the votes but a messy process between now and january when the floor vote comes up for speaker.
john baner fall apart. he's seen it with the tea party and now he has his chance to try to lead a caucus that has voices that are singularly powerful because of their influence in the media. he does understand what he's up against. in the line of questioning there it was why would you put her on this. oversight is a very powerful position for congress. it's been weaponized in a lot of ways. so do expect if there is a republican-led house many investigations, do expect attempts at impeachments that we know will not go anywhere because the senate does not often convict. there's a lot of this we have experienced in the last four or five years. and the commitment to america, most of the policy details could fit on a card in his suit pocket. so he has to flesh out more what it means to have republican
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i take issue with what she said about mark meadows. this is exactly the mark meadows i met in 2013 and dealt with in 2014. this the mark meadows that everyone who worked in house leadership knew. read the book he's personal stories about mark meadows where he won't say it's him. but it's clearly mark meadows. this shouldn't surprise anybody where this is being pointed to now. >> do you think from the mark meadows that you know, that he would be capable of doing something like -- >> without question. >> intimidate a witness. >> without question. john baner in the book talks about a story of an unnamed member of congress that everyone knows is mark meadows. that literally got on his knees in the speakers office and said i beg you to forgive me. that's mark meadows. >> peak travel season arrived in the u.s. with the fourth of july holiday weekend. airlines and passengers bracing for chaos. and cnn report, the blame game well under way.