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Said yesterday he doesn't expect much to come from these talks. a sign this dispute will last a long time. >> may be our first source who says the source is the president on the record. thank you. betsy, a couple moments ago a new look at brett kavanaugh meeting with susan collins here on klieg. interesting and relates to your story you're working on is the guy trailing in the background. just out of frame. see if he walks in. don mcgahn. right? >> there he is. that little man in the back. there's been a lot of speculation about the significance of mcgahn talking with mueller's team for 40 hou...

Anything to fear. keep in mind back when john doud and ty cobb made this decision in consultation with the president, they looked at the mueller probe primarily about conspiracy with the russians and members of the campaign to effected the election or hack computers. it is now clear that bob mueller is focused more on obstruction of justice and that mueller has a very broad view of obstruction, and i would be very, very worried, very scared to go in and talk to bob mueller. and keep in mind, bob mueller's people have indicted four people for lying to bob mueller, lying to his investigators. fo...

Information he has gotten. and he is seeking an interview with the president. so the idea of cooperation, which dowd pushed early on, is still in question. is this a way of, of hurting the president? or helping the president? dowd says today, he says by being as cooperative as they are, they can now make the argument that hey, look, we've done all of these things, we've cooperated with mueller. he's still not satisfied. he is, he is out to get the president. that's the point that dowd is trying to make. >> well michael schmidt. thank you so much for helping us through this developing story. mu...

Up that notion that they've been successful in that area. >> michael, last question, speaking of public opinion, one from the outside here. because i know you tweeted about an email you got from the president's former lawyer, john dowd. kelly was speaking about that. how is he watching this play out? what are his thoughts? >> well, you know, dowd understands the investigation as well as anyone else. he came on last summer after mueller was appointed to lead the president's legal team. and he booked a posture of cooperation. he sold the president on a strategy of the more that we help mueller, ...

Their argument is that because of president's interview with our colleague, lester holt, other public statements he's made, the support by the white house to have witnesses testify, by providing documents, they argue that all the answers are in those sorts of pieces of evidence and testimony that the special counsel team already has. trying to urge them to say what more would you need from the president himself to resolve any questions. they don't expect this is something that the special counsel will jump on. this is more leverage and negotiating to try to resolve it. time is ticking. we know...