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Information he has gotten. and he is seeking an interview with the president. so the idea of cooperation, which dowd pushed early on, is still in question. is this a way of, of hurting the president? or helping the president? dowd says today, he says by being as cooperative as they are, they can now make the argument that hey, look, we've done all of these things, we've cooperated with mueller. he's still not satisfied. he is, he is out to get the president. that's the point that dowd is trying to make. >> well michael schmidt. thank you so much for helping us through this developing story. mu...

Up that notion that they've been successful in that area. >> michael, last question, speaking of public opinion, one from the outside here. because i know you tweeted about an email you got from the president's former lawyer, john dowd. kelly was speaking about that. how is he watching this play out? what are his thoughts? >> well, you know, dowd understands the investigation as well as anyone else. he came on last summer after mueller was appointed to lead the president's legal team. and he booked a posture of cooperation. he sold the president on a strategy of the more that we help mueller, ...

And to what end? >> well, that's the thing. is it a legal strategy? is it a pr strategy? what we've seen in the past few months is a ratcheting up in the tension from the trump legal and public relations teams. we've seen the president use "witch hunt." far more than at any other point in his presidency. and we've seen giuliani throw all sorts of things at the special counsel. publicly. different allegations, seizing on the ig report about comey and fbi investigators, saying that mueller is out to get the president. and pushing different theories, at times would say conspiracy theories about t...

Special counsel. that they provided everything they need and so the president would be one piece they don't need. that's the legal argument from the president's side. alex? >> kelly o, thank you so much. straight from the phone call with rudy giuliani. joining me on the phone, "new york times" washington correspondent michael schmidt. who co-wrote this piece on the trump legal team's shifting strategy. michael, with a welcome to you. walk us through a bit more of these demands and what prompted the change in strategy? >> well, this has been going on for six months. the president's lawyers ha...