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Could pardon himself? i mean is that part of the conversation as well in terms of what trump is up to with all of these legal cases he's dealing with? >> it's a great law school question for future lawyers. we don't know the answer. i mean, i think it's probably no, you cannot pardon yourself. but no one knows for sure. it's never been tried before. but trump's best chance is to become president and then order his department of justice to drop everything. that he can do. but pardoning himself, i think, is a risky bet for him. in the end, he's going to hope he can push this past the election, o...

Rather than cutting the sort of deal that could've saved him. we could we'll see nauta engage in that sort of behavior. >> both trump and nauta want to take this case to trial, but is that actually the best strategy here? >> so, again, it's a nuanced question. i suppose the question is, what outcome are you seeking? are you trying to go to prison for his little time as possible given the overwhelming evidence here? and that doesn't seem to be the strategy as we don't seem to know what's on the former presidents mind but i think it's an earnest gassed to say that he hopes that one or more of th...

Case. >> yeah, his only hope there is simply the idea of jury nullification, that one juror will be a secret trump holdout and wouldn't vote to convict. it is a different game once you're inside the courtroom, versus what you're used to in the political sphere. i told this story before. i was in the oval office for an interview a couple years into his presidency. he suddenly whipped out -- kind of like the off the record thing -- putted out a classified document about kim jong-un. he wants to impress whoever he is with, whoever it might be. jen palmieri, we heard chris christie straight talkin...

That sounds. in every conversation i've had with him he has been gracious with me and he is always accepted my advice and been very flattering. i do not find immediate difficult client. i don't like clients talking about cases, but he is donald trump, he's going to talk about what he wants to stop about and people understand that. one thing that we have to take a step back and take a broader look at this case, i know ambassador fulton kind of alluded to it, but rooms that you have millions of people who believe that this never should've been brought as a criminal prosecution. never underestima...

Will take this case. he has lawyers now willing to take the case, i think chris caused by all reports as a pretty smart guy, but he needs a criminal defense lawyer, somebody who knows how to fight a criminal defense case in a hard way and knows how to deal with these kinds of issues. but i think you will find that. many people would be more than willing to do it. i do not find him to be a difficult client, as odd as that sounds. in every conversation i've had with him he has been gracious with me and he is always accepted my advice and been very flattering. i do not find immediate difficult cl...