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Subpoena and litigates that. i don't know what he's thinking because he won't talk. he's a professional and that's the way professionals conduct themselves. >> all right. so i'm asked to -- i'm allowed to ask our lawyer in this case, what do you think about the possibility of what you just mentioned, a subpoena, knowing mueller and his work as much as you do? >> yeah. that's a real tough call because you have to decide whether the reward, perhaps getting the president to speak. remember, he could still invoke his fifth amendment privilege. is worth the risk. and the risk here is both litigatin...

>> all right. so i'm asked to -- i'm allowed to ask our lawyer in this case, what do you think about the possibility of what you just mentioned, a subpoena, knowing mueller and his work as much as you do? >> yeah. that's a real tough call because you have to decide whether the reward, perhaps getting the president to speak. remember, he could still invoke his fifth amendment privilege. is worth the risk. and the risk here is both litigating it and perhaps losing it, although i think that's unlikely, as well as the attendant delay. again, because you don't have to speak to everybody in an inves...

To ask our lawyer in this case, what do you think about the possibility of what you just mentioned, a subpoena, knowing mueller and his work as much as you do? >> yeah. that's a real tough call because you have to decide whether the reward, perhaps getting the president to speak. remember, he could still invoke his fifth amendment privilege. is worth the risk. and the risk here is both litigating it and perhaps losing it, although i think that's unlikely, as well as the attendant delay. again, because you don't have to speak to everybody in an investigation, you can speak to enough people and ...

More with paul manafort. before we get to the trial that is much more related to russia, that is when he is going to step forward? i don't think so. manafort wanted trump to think about what lay ahead. and the next trial is going to be a lot about russia and ukraine. >> frank, imagining to be what it would look like to see someone pardons in this circumstance, what do you think? >> well, knowing mueller and how he operates and thinks and how his team runs, i have to think there is a prosecutorial parachute. in the form of state charges. do not be surprised if we find out and maybe we will find...

So pled guilty to that. and count 7 and eight, in count 7 that is specifically to the payment made to karen mcdougal. and the payment made to stormy daniels. the president directly involved. a lot of statements made about how the cases that have been brought so far are tied to mueller specifically or come out of mueller's investigation. this is one of those cases that don't have anything to do with the president. >> yeah, and we should note the timing here is, this is going on in late october of 2016. >> exactly. two weeks before the election. >> the payments that he made, the question was the...