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>> i think perhaps you're right. he certainly had academic patter down a lot better than a lot of them did. to me, and i grew up in massachusetts, paul ryan is the biggest fake i've ever seen in politics. i mean, nobody's close. if he's not doing this, you know, phony wonk thing, you know, where he's -- he's putting together his budgets with magic asterisks, he's going down the old jack kemp fwral how he cares about poor folks. paul ryan cares about one thing and only one thing shoving as much wealth up to the very, very top of the food chain and making sure it doesn't trickle back down again....

Know, phony wonk thing, you know, where he's -- he's putting together his budgets with magic asterisks, he's going down the old jack kemp trail about how he cares about poor folks. paul ryan cares about one thing and only one thing shoving as much wealth up to the very, very top of the food chain and making sure it doesn't trickle back down again. that's the summation of paul ryan's legacy. >> that's a much clearer through line than deficits and debt i think. of you said look at what he's done. although there is something that is interesting in his career, ruth, which is the ryan budget. i thi...

Is it going to be offset by massive cuts. you heard what steven just said, do you think this plan is realistic? >> no, of course not. all we're missing is a call to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse, and we'll pay for his programs with that. i would note that this budget is not a real budget, and that they're just putting magic asterisks in for the tax plan for the repealing of obama care. they're not even trying to get the numbers to add up. i think this is more of a political document. and that's okay. the budget comes out of congress. so the presidential guj ets are always more of a messagin...

Waste, fraud and abuse, i would like to see them try it, what do you think is going to happen. i guarantee you. >> the white house office of management and budget. said that the budget outline doesn't take into account revenue projections from promised tax cuts or added spending on infrastructure, does in a make a difference? >> yes, because those are both things that are going to lose tremendous amounts of funding. that's my point, they're using magic asterisks. we're going to wave our hands and tell you that the budget will add up, and we're not even counting how much we're going to cut reve...

True also that donald trump is tack alg big one in obamacare. if we can't get some of the excesses of obamacare out of the way, how are we going to deal with national security? >> and the increase in defense spepdi spending is going to be offset in nondefense spending. do you think this plan is realistic? >> no, of course not. the only thing we're missing is the call to eliminate waste and abuse. i would note this budget is not a real budget and they're just putting magic asterisks in for the tax plan, for the repealing of obamacare. they're not even trying to get the numbers to add up. i thin...