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Pale. >> well, i think it's an important point. he should get whatever due process is due an nba owner, but when you're on owner of an nba team and you're denounced by the president of the united states and lebron james, i don't know which of those is more important but it's a sign you're in big trouble. i don't think racism is harder than it was when we had laws in the south that would forbid people from staying zwroo-- >> it's harder to litigate. it's not worse today. >> right. we've made enormous progress. you're never going to have a society where people don't believe or say stupid, hatefu...

Our round table. there is, of course, just the sight of the two of them together, but also some of the controversy surrounding canonization of both of these figures, john paul ii, the question of pedophilia in the catholic church, one thing that's been talked about a lot this week. >> they're very excited about this. the real observation i have about this is that it's brilliant politics among other things. you take -- you canonize two pops popes at one. a more conservative leaning pope and the great liberalizer of the catholic church. it's an interesting lesson for our political parties. he's ...

Mallory factor, professor of international politics and american government at the citadel military college in south carolina. he is also the editor of the best selling book, "big tent: the story of the conservative revolution." a lot to get to there, but a lot to get to just in our sunday morning conversation here, neera. bryant gumble on eastermel o eg program. here is what he said a minute ago. >> we historically, whether it's donald sterling or cliven blundy or trayvon martin, we look at a tip of the iceberg and we ignore the mass underneath it. >> what is the mass underneath this latest f...

Mallory factor, professor of international politics and american government at the citadel military college in south carolina. he is also the editor of the best selling book, "big tent: the story of the conservative revolution." a lot to get to there, but a lot to get to just in our sunday morning conversation here, neera. bryant gumbel on earlier in the program. here is what he said a minute ago. >> we historically, whether it's donald sterling or cliven bundy or trayvon martin, we look at a tip of the iceberg and we ignore the mass underneath it. >> what is the mass underneath this latest fl...

Do you see it that way? some of my reaction is it's such outlier behavior. i'm not saying i'm surprised there's racism in america but it immediately strikes people as, my gosh, that's so beyond the pale. >> well, i think it's an important point. he should get whatever due process is due an nba owner, but when you're on owner of an nba team and you're denounced by the president of the united states and lebron james, i don't know which of those is more important but it's a sign you're in big trouble. i don't think racism is harder than it was when we had laws in the south that would forbid peopl...