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Anybody up there because he wasn't serving in the administration. and yet, he has decided to make a cause out of this because it works to his benefit. i don't think it works to mark meadows' benefit, as you were pointing out. or to other trump admin -- administration officials' benefit but bannon's kind of a special case. >> yeah, josh, the difference between meadows and bannon certainly seems, you know, i guess meadows -- at least in the past -- didn't want to be held in contempt of congress. steve bannon seems to want nothing else. it helps him for all the reasons andrew said. i mean, is thi...

Past -- didn't want to be held in contempt of congress. steve bannon seems to want nothing else. it helps him for all the reasons andrew said. i mean, is this battle with the justice department -- i guess, financially, i guess he has a lot of money and -- and it's good for his reputation in the world that he exists in? >> well, yeah. i mean, i think for bannon, you don't have to look any further than the fact that he brought a camera crew to his arraignment and stopped in mid-perp walk to do a live interview to show you what it is that steve bannon hopes to get out of this whole experience. i ...