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At an elementary school found a plastic bin with a label that said pre-visiovisional ballots. she was concerned. we asked election officials here yesterday. they said that normally they take these boxes with equipment to all of the polling places and it takes them eight days to drop them off. they say it was equipment in there, dave and alison, and not ballots. you know, as of now, that's what we know. one minor point or i should say major point about the minutia because there is a lot we are hearing from both camps. only the secretary of state can ask and call for those recounts. we know that...

I can't find it. the comebacker is, it could be a conspiracy charge. let me translate that. if money changes hands, people are being bribed, things like that, yeah, can it be a crime. it's like saying somebody robbed a bank. it's a crime. i'm being sarcastic. the fact of the matter is, collusion is an anti trust term. because -- >> trish: a wrong term. >> by the way, minor point, in reverse, the democrats tried to get -- they just say opposition research. it's done all the time. >> and they paid for it. they went on to foreign soil and paid for it. >> it's laughable for them to have this famed...

To make $120,000 hush payment? >> joe, it's the exact right question and cohen's finances are the biggest mystery here. how could he make 30 or $40 million in a real estate flip and be hankering after 100 grand on a home equity loan some years later. it doesn't actually add up and raises the questions that i believe are at the heart of the investigation to cohen, whose money was that really? whose transactions are those? who purchased those apartments from which he made on paper the millions of millions of dollars? it doesn't add up. something is going to drop here. and on a second point, joe,...

The law here, the versions of the story put out by the president, by his lawyer, and by his other people, what judgment will a judge make about the purpose of these payments, do you think? >> well, the problem with the giuliani defense is not that it's not legitimate, it's just that the facts don't fit neatly. in fact the department of justice showed with john edwards that simply claiming that these payments would be made irrespectively is not an absolute defense. the problem, of course, is the delivery. it's the same problem with the clown car. the problem with the clown car is not the car. i...

Possibilities. if this retainer exists, there's probably other payments. >> that's correct. the problem right from the beginning is that there is no coherent theory that mr. giuliani articulated. i think professor turley was indicating, there's an argument he might make but the reimbursement has nothing to do with it. it doesn't cure the violation in any way whatsoever. why are they putting this forward so aggressively? the answer may be that this payment to mr. cohen may take place in the context of other concerns, concerned unrelated to campaign finance that mr. trump may have. bear in mind ...