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Of course, we don't know what kind of conversations they've already had with president trump, and perhaps he's already promised pardons to either giuliani or stone. but in giuliani's instance, i think he could be indicted today. you know, joyce and i drafted a mock indictment against rudy giuliani, and i think just based on what's already out there in the public domain, he could be indicted today for conspiracy to defraud the united states in the fair administration of elections and conspiracy to commit bribery on the same matter that president trump is under investigation for today. and in ad...

Value going overseas, going to ukraine, the president getting on a phone call with the president of ukraine trying to get dirt on joe biden. >> that's why rudy giuliani i think is on the hook for conpierce to defraud the united states. the third charge they put in this mock indictment, and it's a mock indictment. >> and it's a good read. >> it's a great read. the third charge is conspiracy to commit bribery based on trump withholding congressionally appropriated funds. virtually he's kinds of willing to walk over the body of dead ukrainians to get what he wants, which is unfair advantage in th...

Reminded. a lawyer acting on behalf of the client is not protected if the under lying work is against the law. nor protected with a side hustle. both those apply to michael cohen. rudy giuliani is in trouble for things outside of the law and things he was doing on his own. >> representing a client and committing crimes. whether it's to benefit the client or not. we apply the crime fraud exception. your privilege evaporates and you can be charged. not can you be charged you can be charged as a coconspirator with your compliant. a number of associates have been indicted. there's a great piece do...

Underlying work is against the law, nor are they protected if they have a side hustle going. both of those applied to michael cohen, by the way. he was doing things illegal and he had side hustles going on. rudy giuliani would be in trouble for things he was doing outside the law and things he was doing on his own. >> if you're representing a client and whether it's to benefit the client or notthen we apply the crime fraud exception. so your privilege evaporates and you can be charged. not only can you be charged, you can be charged as a coconspirator beyo coconspirator with your client. we've...

Difficult to regard him in good faith or give him the benefit of the doubt. put he does as the attorney general retain authority over all u.s. attorneys offices. so even if the southern district of new york or the district of columbia wanted to bring a case like this, they wouldn't do it without at least first alerting him that these charges were pending, and he mind have the ability to stop it if he wanted to. and so i think it remains to be seen whether charges like this actually end up going forward. >> and you call the president individual one, an unindicted coconspirator in your mock vers...