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Exactly who we are and exactly what we believe and exactly what our vision for america is. ryan can do that. >> krystal, i think that's true. they're going to win or lose articulating what they really think. i think they're going to lose articulating -- >> i think they're going to lose, i don't think they're going to articulate what they really think. i think they're going to try to run away from the ryan budget. >> as close as a politician can. they're going to evade and all that, but they'll try to come closer. >> their big talking point has been, well, forget about pall ryan and medicare. l...

Them. that's what mitt romney has decided to embrace. i think it's the boldest pick he could have made, because everybody else is boring. but other than that, i think it's not a good thing for him. >> but consider the message. what they're saying is, it's not going to go into effect for ten years, and then we'll make it better. while obama says, why don't we just make it better now? how about that? >> we know it's bad for current medicare beneficiaries -- >> but we're not going to the touch it. >> but romney will fix it. >> we can't tell you how, but trust us. >> karen finney and joy reid, you...

And when he dropped out, i said, obviously tim pawlenty is going to get the vice presidential nomination, but your august 10th headline of "fiscal times" is paul ryan will not be mitt romney's running mate. what happened here, bruce? >> well, the operation was a success, but unfortunately the patient died. well, look, my argument was essentially political, that it simply makes no sense for romney to put ryan on the ticket, if only because he doesn't attract a single new vote to romney that he didn't already have. and he brings along a lot of baggage, the ann rand stuff, the abolish medicare st...

That believes, because most of them are rich, that we can wean america off of the social safety net. that we can get rid of it solely over time, as long as we don't need the current elderly, because we need them to vote for them. that's what mitt romney has decided to embrace. i think it's the boldest pick he could have made, because everybody else is boring. but other than that, i think it's not a good thing for him. >> but consider the message. what they're saying is, it's not going to go into effect for ten years, and then we'll make it better. while obama says, why don't we just make it be...

Chairman of the democratic national committee and vermont governor, howard dean, and msnbc's steve kornacki and krystal ball. governor dean, a lot of democrats are saying, you know, this is the dream ticket. this is who they wanted on there. i actually don't think it's spin. as much as this is a time for spin, and you were going to get a spin reaction, no matter what in these situations, i don't think they're kidding. i think this is the ticket that the democrats want. >> well, you know, i think you have to be careful of talk like that, because it sounds like you're taking things for granted a...