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Mass surveillance outside the united states. i don't think the chinese government should have a free hand to engage in surveillance inside the united states. i think you have to draw some lines. one of the problems we are seeing through the disclosures is the nsa hasn't drawn the lines. and intelligence committees haven't drawn the lines. only now is the public being invited into the debate. being invited into the debate because of the disclosures. >> go ahead. >> yeah. look. it would be nice if the russians and chinese stopped spying. they're not going to. that's why we have counterintelligen...

I have wanted to have for a long time. that is a different matter from the vast majority of snowden leaks which are about the nsa foreign intelligence mission. the damage there has been devastating. it is beyond disingenuous for mr. snowden to suggest, nsa cannot show damage. they will not, because the it is classified. a false game. i want to delineate between the two. i welcome domestic debate. i hope congress acts in the manner that represents the will of the american public. whatever that is. a very different issue from what most of mr. snowden has done. >> i think to be fair, the nsa has ...

When there is a problem and there may be a potential for abusive problems, i'll get some lawyers together that all work for him, and then they'll review it and put more safeguards on it. the nsa cannot oversee themselves. the administration or executive branch can't oversee themselves. that's why we separate these powers. but we separated the police power from the judiciary power. so we can't have internal lawyers kind of looking at this and saying, oh, let's try to make sure everybody's privacy is taken care. see, really, he's not going to fundamentally change any of this. many of us think it...

Billion spent, but there are a lot of people, not only in the white house but also on capitol hill, horrified that this information keeps coming out that explains exactly what we're trying to do to stop the next terrorist attack on america and explains in great detail what we know, what we don't know, how we collect information and evidence against suspected terrorists. it is a real nightmare for the intel community. >> well, and what's -- i can tell you there has been some heated discussions between the west wing and nsa in particular because nsa cannot, to this day, they still don't know wha...

Where the administration says it wants to be more open about how the programs work and when there's been sharp criticism the fisa court and nsa cannot police the programs. >> shepard: very interesting. we'll have a lot to report on tonight. >> hope it makes sense. it's complicated. >> shepard: very complicated. we can roll over in the mornings and say, good morning, nsa, because they're there. >> that's you, all you. >> shepard: i say hello every morning, trudging off to the bathroom. the 16-year-old girl who survived the murder of her mother and brother as well as a multistate kidnapping ni...