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Given everything that has gone down? joining me now, jim cavanaugh. he is of course an msnbc enforcement analyst, retired atf agent with a lot of experience, and as promised, back with us prosecutor joyce vance. jim, your view of the obstruction issue, and whether if at a certain point there is enough blunt public talk from this person linked to the inquiry whether some guidance or some rules have to be publicly set? >> well, they do, ari, absolutely. this is a blockbuster statement by the president, in my view, given the federal statute on obstruction and interfering with any agency's officia...

He is of course an msnbc enforcement analyst, retired atf agent with a lot of experience, and as promised, back with us prosecutor joyce vance. jim, your view of the obstruction issue, and whether if at a certain point there is enough blunt public talk from this person linked to the inquiry whether some guidance or some rules have to be publicly set? >> well, they do, ari, absolutely. this is a blockbuster statement by the president, in my view, given the federal statute on obstruction and interfering with any agency's official proceeds. joyce can elaborate on this. but she knows. and i know j...

In. if you could please give us your answer. after the question, give us your answer as slowly and clearly and loudly as you can. have a seat. >> it's really hard for me to see the witness if i'm seated. we have an obstruction issue in the courtroom. >> this is the first witness you're telling me you're having an issue with seeing. if you need to move your seat to another place at the table, you may feel free to do so. >> thank you, your honor. >> thank you. >> mr. de la rionda, ask your question, please. >> you mentioned that trayvon martin said something to you. you said something back to hi...

Made. that these comments were made in these meetings, and that they are memos that are now in the hands of robert mueller, the special counsel, that this is a huge, huge deal. >> yeah, contemporaneous notes are explosive, indeed. what do we know about rosenstein's motivations? >> so according to the "new york times," there was a lot of chaos surrounding this moment after the president fired james comey, certainly a lot of questions were raised about the motivations behind that. and people had concern that this was an obstruction issue, that perhaps he fired the former fbi director to try and ...

Where this could actually play into an obstruction issue, to be trying to push sessions out, which could lead to the firing of rod rosenstein, which could lead to a domino effect that would affect the mueller probe? >> well, i think that this theory is alive and well, and i think we're going to have to wait and see what mueller finds. but if i understand what mr. cohen has said, the president directed him to essentially commit a felony. and that's obstruction of justice. so we're going to have to wait and see. >> under the laws that now obtain, there doesn't necessarily have to be a hearing to...