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Shouldn't exist. the point, the importance of the "new york times" story yesterday is one of the importances is it sort of answers the question of how that investigation exists even if barr is right about the obstruction matter, which is that they were investigating in part a possible crime. i think barr will likely get, first of all, a lot of questions on the merits of his legal argument about obstruction and article two of the constitution, but i also think he will now get probably or should get some questions isn't your memo a giant nonsequitur in terms of what we have learned. >> ben, grea...

Down. the other being that giuliani says they want this wrapped up by september so presumably in the next few weeks we could have some answers here. the next step is whether or not mueller goes to the extreme step of subpoenaing the president but it's obvious to all of us the lawyers don't want the president to be asked questions about obstruction. they said fine ask about collusions. but what is it about the obstruction matter that concerns the lawyers so much? >> huge questions about obstruction, intent. when you fired james comey what were you thinking? when you had the conversation about m...

Things about what was happening and there's some corroborating evidence to suggest comey was right. if you read the report, that's basically what it comes down to. typically on a case like this, you don't charge based on a he said/he said in terms of false statements. >> what we see here, matt miller, if you want to take a skeptical view, two key witnesses, comey and mccabe, against potentially donald trump in the obstruction matter, are now having a public feud with the looming threat of jail, which would be to donald trump's benefit. a lot of people underestimate him. seems like he's pretty ...

Judge rules but i'm surprised he spoke on the issue at all. >> it is -- i feel like i'm watching "dynasty" from the '80s. >> or "falcon crest." >> or "dallas." "knott's landing." michael, there's a reason i saved you for last. i want you to tie all this up. you worked for robert mueller and i saved the last question for you. talk to me about the tactics he and his team could use here. >> in terms of whether they get an interview or in the course of an interview? >> either way. go on. >> so i think that mueller and his team wants an interview of the president because there is no way they can wr...

Tension between the two of them has tried to do everything possible to try and move along the white house's cooperation with mueller. >> frank, i want to bring you in on that point because i know you shared some thoughts with us today that donald trump's reaction to this story by calling michael schmidt and maggie haberman's account fake news, he may have impeached the credibility or perhaps even the testimony of don mcgahn. elaborate. >> he may have painted himself into a corner that has legal significance. so as we've just heard, this news that he wanted to mueller was not a surprise to muel...