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Thought was ultimately obstructive but couldn't find or trace the president's intent to it partly because many of the communications between the president and dowd that could have established the president's intent that he intended to commit a crime, attorney/client conversations, right? or they couldn't -- neal said they couldn't prove intent. the fact that you couldn't -- the fact that you couldn't prove that he intended to obstruct justice doesn't mean it's not an obstructive act. that's one of the things that mueller made a note of in the report, you know, when citing this particular thing...

That's how it sort of comes back to cloak the communications. so i mean, this was sounds to me like he didn't like the answer he was getting because he didn't like the fact that flynn was cooperating. that's what he was -- that's what dowd or whoever it was who was communicating was getting angry at. right? it was the fact that flynn was actually cooperating. and to get angry at a witness for cooperating is trying to dissuade them from cooperating. that is an obstructive act in my mind. now, it's very interesting as you pointed out. i mean you immediately think why is this not yet another obst...

Defense agreement, which happens automatically when someone is cooperating which by this point they well knew that flynn was cooperating, once the joint defense agreement goes away, there's no basis for him to be sharing for flynn's lawyer to be sharing information anymore with trump's lawyer. i mean, it's not only that he can't.an he shouldn't be, right? because now we have attorney/client privilege be basically in effect again. that's how it sort of comes back to cloak the communications. so i mean, this was sounds to me like he didn't like the answer he was getting because he didn't like th...

Remember this is what got flynn in hot water in the first place, talking about sanctions with the then russian ambassador and lying about it to the vice president and to the american people. so we could still learn more about this case going forward. >> so will the transcripts be something if we hear the voice mail. sarah murray, thank you very much. let's analyze. i have ashar rengoppa and frank bruni is a "new york times" opinion columnist and a cnn contributor. so welcome to both you. asha, you first, does what we've just learned, this voice mail and communication, does that qualify as ob...

It really, i think, cuts against the president's -- you know, the sort of argument that this is something other than political, right? it sort of made this into a much more political event than i think it should have been. so it is really hard for me to understand from the legal vantage point why he would walk into that room even for a minute. >> rich, do you see it as a problem? >> no, not if the -- if it is true that he was just there at the beginning and didn't actually participate in the briefing and just emphasized that the president does have an interest in transparency. i don't see what...