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Element it wasn't just obstructing an investigation. like sort of a -- that was, but it was obstructing an investigation to ensure that classified information that could damage national security was obtained and any damage rectified. that's the obstructive act. so it really elevates i think the concern and really the -- level of seriousness of the conduct we're talking about. >> when you look at the public-facing evidence of obstruction, do you see things that normal person wouldn't? i mean, do you see that there's somebody cooperating that had access to this mishandling of classified document...

To say don mcgahn was being somewhat difficult, and it was only cooperating some of the time. that was 15 minutes later. apparently, mr. mcgahn did tell the committee what he knows and what he saw and that the conclusion of today's testimony, chairman out there told reporters don mckenna to shed new light on several troubling events. another of the few lawmakers that was present in the closed-door session today confirmed don mcgahn detailed but the repeated pressure he got put under from former president trump, and the obstructive act he witnessed. those were laid out in the mueller report as ...

And said that this would be the narrowest impeachment in histo history. just of dress the judge. >> i would make two points. hypocrisy and politics. again, politics always covers over impeachment. and we can debate all day about whether a particular obstructive act would qualify as the framers idea of a high crime and misdemeanor. the fact of the matter is if it was trivial or if it was a one-off, or if it was not suggestive of a heinous pattern of conduct, congress would not dare try to impeach over it, not because it did not fit some abstract legal definition, but because as a matter of poli...

Mr. lewandowski had said had never occurred their longstanding relationship and he wanted mr. lewandowski to tell mr. sessions to pare down the russia investigation and if he wouldn't take that meeting he'd be fired and that was an obstructive act and it took me 30 seconds to explain that and it took him hours to cop to that and it goes to the obstructive behavior that we've seen from this white house. >> when you talk about it taking a long time, it did. in a lot of ways i have to say there were humorous moments and as an american citizen it was pretty depressing. you knew he was going to be ...

Something that you knew was against the law? >> i didn't think the president would ask me to do anything illegal. >> you didn't think it would have been illegal for you to ask mr. sessions to drop the investigation and to just go on to future presidents and omit everything with this president, say we're going to start with the next one about colluding with russia? you didn't think that was illegal to obstruct justice? >> congressman, the president didn't ask me to do anything illegal. >> lewandowski is ride or die, so that's what we got today. >> that's clear. >> that's clear. and i actually a...