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Alternative energy industry, we are as a nation competing with other countries that subsidize alternative energy because they all see it as the future moving away from oil dependency, jon, and whereas in the bain situation, yes, there are companies that succeeded and failed, but even with a company that failed in the bain case, i think the obama team is able to make the case that the bain principles take profit out of that and walk away with money in their pockets while people lose jobs. carney didn't nail that. jon onas a u.s. taxpayer, mare credit catherine ham, i'd like my money back from s...

Oil dependency by shifting some transport to gas as well. >> let's talk about how you get it. in some cases, old ways but the new ways now of getting through the shale and getting the oil and creating jobs in pennsylvania, in new york, they are drilling these wells all the time. tell me how much there is and the process. >> well, take one example the marcelus shale you were talking about in pennsylvania and new york and other parts of the northeast up to 500 tril cubic feet of gas and more than what we use in an average given year. that is tapped in a newish way that uses horizontal drilling. ...

Cost. should you buy your ticket now before the airlines increase their fees? that seems like it's inevitable. if you're driving, how far are you prepared to drive and spend for what it's going to take to fill your tank? i think the learning lesson from this, and 9/11 wasn't a wake-up call. but we have to get off this crack pipe of oil dependency. that's a long-term lesson. >> that's a whole other segment for us to tackle. >> it is. >> let's talk about the white house focusing on jobs. obviously, an extremely important talking point in this political landscape. you've got the turmoil in the mi...

For example? >> it's a great question. i can tell you that among telephone callers, when these sort of things have arisen in the past, there's an isolationist mentality that comes out of the woodwork of people who say, look, there's no up side. we shouldn't be involved in these sort of squabbles. but then the response is to say take a look at the location of the suez canal. we have no choice because of our oil dependencycanal, we have no choice because of our oil dependency because we haven't achieved independence as far as our own energy supply. >> and as far as the suez canal, for everything...

Agreement that oil dependency is a problem. but changing americans' demand for gas is not going to be easy. the number one factor is the price of gasoline. the price of gas shoots up, then people will cut back. but a harvard study this year found that to cut vehicle emissions 14% below 2005 levels may require gas prices of more than $7 a gallon. wolf? >> all right, lisa. thanks very much. lisa sylvester will be back. new questions right now being raised about the release of the lockerbie bomber. was there a link to bp and libya's oil interests? our own richard quest is getting some answers t...