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It is about money and it is about whether federal laws were broken. and to explain why that matters i'm joined by my least salacious colleague, ari melber, the host of the beat, the nbc legal correspondent. it is easy to lose track in the conversation because somebody names stormy daniels and she's a porn star and the issue isn't whether it was for an affair or hush money it was that money that was paid that could have been influential in the campaign and the election of the presidency of the united states. >> that is right, ali. and the only reason we've learned what we've learned from michae...

Tariffs could kill up to 40,000 auto jobs. that number amounts to nearly one third of the overall steel work force or equivalent of that. joining me now is the co-author of the analysis ben steel, senior fellow of international economics at counsel on foreign relations and with us is edward alden from the council on foreign relations specializing in u.s. economic competitiveness. good to see you both. thank you for being with us. ben, let me start with you. one of the reasons for thinking that there would be auto jobs lost is that the commerce secretary wilbur ross got on tv and said it will b...

There are different reasons for getting rid of certain people. what are they? in this particular case, the president has -- seems to resisted john kelly's controlling him as you said. but in particular, the things we've seen in the last week or so have been things that have specifically been worked around john kelly. in other words the president seems to be sending a message to john kelly, don't even try. >> yeah. and that is what has alarmed a lot of people, ali. is that the decision both on tariffs and north korea seem to have gone around the normal policy-making process. we should all point...

Very happy because it means a lot to us in the industry. and people indirectly to the industry it means a lot also. >> well, like your towns and like mill towns, one of the things about steel is it's like auto working, right? they create towns around it. so -- >> exactly. >> the pizza maker, the school, the car dealer, it all exists around an industry. but you've been in it for a long time. your dad was a steel worker, too? >> oh, yeah, my dad -- he was a steel worker like i said, back in the '80s. when you were in school, you went to college or you went to work in the mill. >> let me ask you ...