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What it is. >> it's interesting that yes, it is in part this kabuki dance, but it is transparent as you pointed out. not only to tell "the new york post" that it's out there now but as you've been reporting that the manafort team has been talking to trump lawyers about what they were discussing with mueller. shimon, just on that, that shouldn't be lost in all of this, that manafort's lawyers have been telling the president's team about what they've been telling mueller. >> right. it's not just the manafort team. there are other lawyers that we now know that have also been telling trump's lawye...

Investigate me, he's saying, i will declassify documents that will be devastating to the democrats. if they want to go and harass the president of the administration, i think that would be the best thing that could happen to me, because i'm a counter puncher, and i will hit them so hard, they have never been hit like that. that's what the president of the united states is threatening the new democratic incoming majority in the house of representatives. >> right. and it's in keeping with other sort of kinds of threats that we have heard from the president. to use levers of the united states gov...

Paul manafort is he called him a brave man and compared him to michael cohen and said he didn't break in the way that michael cohen did. he said he had been treated unfairly, worse than alphonse capone. what is trump thinking in terms of paul manafort? >> in point on the pardon issue. this has happened before over the course of the investigation where we learned that the president is obtaining advice from his personal legal counsel about an official act, the act of using the pardon authority of the executive. that is actually significant. this is an official act. the question is he making offi...

Record because i didn't want to get in the middle of the whole thing. he speaks off the record. josh dossy says, is there any version of that that you are willing to give us on the record? trump said i would rather not. at some point i will talk on the record about it, but i would rather not. who knows what he is saying off the record? at some point we'll obviously know. what we do know on the record from what trump has said about paul manafort is he called him a brave man and compared him to michael cohen and said he didn't break in the way that michael cohen did. he said he had been treated ...

Had he behaved, had he fully cooperated, you know, he could have driven this sentence down even further had he been on good behavior. he didn't. he threw all of that out the window after all of this work with the mueller operation. >> but not enough for him. i mean, he's going to sit in jail regardless of how much he -- >> he's going to do some time. but at his age, you know, there's a big difference between five years or ten years. >> and 70. >> and life. >> yeah. >> yeah. okay. juliette, what did you want to say? >> no, just on the pardon issue, even if he assumes there is going to be a pard...