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Paul manafort managed to get -- that mueller managed to get concessions from paul manafort that limit the value of any pardon. what kind of concessions could that be? because he has to keep cooperating as long as mueller wants him? >> right. the extent of the cooperation actually has to be valuable. now back to this pardon point, what is fascinating is the president is basing his decisions on who to pardon and this is long before any of this, who to pardon based on loyalty to him and this concept of family loyalty or o mere todd might work great in godfather and criminal movies but it doesn't ...

Of the president's lawyers to suggest this. this happened earlier. and so this keeps coming up. and i think -- i do think there's reason to be at a minimum very curious as to what the president really believes about whether or not he should pardon any of these people and when. so i do think it's a big deal. >> devlin barrett, national security reporter with the "washington post." really appreciate you being with us on a friday night. thanks, devlin. >> sure. >> much appreciated. i should also mention on that pardon point it does complicate both the politics and the legal approach that a presid...

Minimum very curious as to what the president really believes about whether or not he should pardon any of these people and when. so i do think it's a big deal. >> devlin barrett, national security reporter with the "washington post." really appreciate you being with us on a friday night. thanks, devlin. >> sure. >> much appreciated. i should also mention on that pardon point it does complicate both the politics and the legal approach that a president might take trying to sort of save himself, paul manafort's potential testimony by pardoning paul manafort. mr. manafort is charged alongside som...

Statement back to us within hours. so i think -- but look, in intelligence terms a dangle is a dangle. you throw the idea out there. and that's alarming certainly to law enforcement officials. i think a pardon would be -- you know, would be so politically damaging right now to the president that i think they understand the risks that even talking about it create. but look, somehow they keep talking about it, right? rudy giuliani is not the first of the president's lawyers to suggest this. this happened earlier. and so this keeps coming up. and i think -- i do think there's reason to be at a mi...