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Unchecked. he gets very frustrated when he doesn't get things through congress. this is a power he can essentially do without any recourse whatsoever from anybody that has any concerns about it. not really -- and the question that you raise is what message is he trying to send? he was asked directly if he's considering a pardon for paul manafort, for michael cohen. he said they haven't been charged with anything yet. but still, if you wanted to pardon them now, he probably presumably could. richard nixon was pardoned before he was charged. >> when he's talking about the drug-trafficking grandm...

Nothing illegal and what they're looking for is something illegal so that they can start prosecution. >> if there's nothing illegal about it why lie from the get go? >> because there was something to cover up. there was something to hide. >> why hide anything if you didn't do anything wrong? >> well, because we've heard now time and again because he has absolute pardon power, for example, pardoning somebody can't be evidence of a crime, and because if someone comes to the white house and offers a pardon in exchange for a bribe, and he's entitled to issue a pardon, but i don't think there's any...

Circle of wagons. what can stop the president from waiting for that precise moment when he thinks somebody's going to talk and spring him. >> i mean in my mind, it the only thing that can stop him is an obstruction of justice charge. there needs to be some limit to the pardon power. i understand that the executive. >> has there ever been a limit to it. >> it's never been decided by the supreme court or otherwise. >> has the court ever stopped the president from pardoning somebody. >> i don't think the issue's been raised. the idea the president can act with no check what soever is kind of spea...

>> donald trump will avoid pardoning somebody who was an ally and in this case is joe arpaio and there's been speculation whether donald trump would get out of any allies of his and that's something that i would watch very, very closely here. >> walter, here's my question. if you're the feds and trying to get someone to flip. this case is totally different because it involves the president who has a pardoning power and is it more difficult to get paul manafort to flip because he's thinking maybe a pardon is in his future? >> that was the concern i expressed around the time that our payover rec...

Invested gatien. is the president considering pardoning somebody? here's one of his attorneys on mr. scaramucci. >> we have not and continued to not have conversations with the president of the united states regarding pardons. pardons have not been discussed and pardons are not on the table. >> i'm in the oval office of the president last week, talking about that, he says he brought that up, he said, but he doesn't have to be pardoned. there's nobody around him that has to be pardoned. >> depends on your definition's "we." >> looked like good for us. seems to be blurting out everything the pre...