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Directly and that's exactly what happened today. >> also tonight, patrick, we learned that the white house is pulling together a list for possible replacements for mike pompeo after he speculated that he would leave the cabinet to run for cabinet in kansas, mnuchin and deputy secretary of state steve biegun. what do you think is driving this? >> the party and president trump's political needs in terms of keeping the senate. the reality is unlike in 2018 where the house was really in contention, 2020, it's all about the senate and kansas has typically been a republican state until 2018 when the...

Great as a witness in the well of the senate. so a little surprising that he's really digging in here and saying he'd even defy a senate subpoena. kate. >> it is fascinating. good to see you, lauren. thank you. out front with me now, "washington post" congressional report error and patrick heely, "new york times" politics editor. good to see you guys again. biden has taken this position before. he's said this but i think this is the first time he's kind of made this declaration once again since the president was impeached by the house. is this going to stop republicans for asking for his testi...

Of the gop in the senate not wanting to get into the witness pool at all. the fact that biden has said this now brings this debate back into the fore. gives them something to point at and say wait a second. it potentially creates a little bit of a problem for biden himself when answering questions about how he would conduct himself if he were president in a similar -- similarly partisan time. and what his relationship would be like with congress, especially when congress, potentially, would subpoena biden administration for people to testify and for documents and witnesses. but as for right no...

Democrats and republicans remain in a standoff over what an impeachment trial will look like as they head home for a two-week holiday break. what are the next steps here? joining me now to discuss, patrick heely cnn analyst and editor for "the new york times" and tim and a half tally, co-author of the book, impeachment, an american history. good to see you both. happy holidays. >> happy holidays. >> hi, fred. >> patrick, what do you expect to happen over this holiday recess? >> well, nancy pelosi is holding pretty firm to the two-week holiday recess that members are taking. she is saying that ...

Quote, game changer. out front now, former attorney general ann millgreen, abby philip, politics editor for "the new york times," patrick heely and former gop committee counsel for the impeachment investigation, sofia nelson. abby, the reporting tonight that pompeo wouldn't defend his own ambassador in part because he was afraid of rudy giuliani who is essentially running in the cse of ukraine, certainly a separate state department. what does this tell you? >> it tells you how afraid one of president trump's favorite cabinet members is of rudy giuliani and the power that he has with president ...