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Which is a crying shame. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ here's the fun part, back with our "hardball" round table, ali your political predict for 2019? >> lots of red meat from the president, it's a fair prediction. but i say this, whenever he's backed against a wall he tends to lash out and reach out to his base. you're going into an election year, a year of mueller and democratic probes. i think it's going to be a year of even more red meat than we're used to. >> even more. joseph? >> democrats are going to discover when you have a presidential fiel...

Comprehensive immigration reform, including some $700 million -- excuse me, $40 billion for border security, including fences and all of the other drones and observation and the like. we're willing to do that. most recently just this year, 2018, democrats and republicans came together on a very comprehensive way of dealing with daca and providing border security. all of the elements, fences, improve the fences, repair the fences. >> could it include money for a wall? >> where necessary, yes. but let me be very clear about this. on the committees on which i serve, the transportation, infrastruc...

If this is about his base, what is the base willing to accept here? is the base willing to accept a posture even if it falls short of an actual wall? >> is the base willing to accept a major global recession? which is what closing the u.s./mexico border would mean. obviously not. so i think the point is the base wants theater. donald trump delivers theater. but the people around him actually have to now do a negotiation in an environment that is increasingly inhospitable to them and they know they are trapped. >> ben rhodes, from the standpoint of democrats, because it looks like this thing is...

Border security, not for the wall. that's what we're willing to do. and that's a logical compromise, to say we'll do some plus-up for some fencing, for? additional border security, but we're not going to pay for this wall. and i think people know the democrats don't control the entire government. what they can do is say we have a different agenda. we have an agenda to rebuild our infrastructure. we have an agenda to secure voting rights for the american people. we have an agenda that can put people to work and donald trump is focused on a wall. and that's a very comfortable fight for democrats...

Immigration caravan message, popular with the base and those at president trump's rallies but also controversial and divisive, particularly with independents. the people who made their decision over the last few days voted democratic by a 12-point margin." christian, you were talking about this a minute ago saying that the political pressure shifts to the democrats, but i do wonder is that -- if the wall and immigration is going to be what defines this shutdown, is there a cautionary political note for republicans there in what just happened in the midterm elections? >> not really, no, because...