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Some inkling that he had exposure on this, if he kept the tapes secret from donald trump, he wasn't making the tape for donald trump, was he making the tape at that time that he thought he had the presence of mind that there might be something shady that would backfire on him? >> there are certain things we don't know. but that certainly raises the question of what was the motivation to secretly tape the president on that issue at that time? i mean, this is the thing about tapes, right, tapes don't lie. i mean, you can have disputes about a conversation you had back in 2016 with a he said/she ...

>> i think the point liz makes is an important one, this law has been on the books for 45 years. for 45 years it's been understood by every court in the country to prohibit laws on racial minorities. there's no reason for the supreme court to reach out and decide this case. they've been on a mission, they took a case two years ago, then looked for the next case in the queue and it happened to be mt. holly. that is part of what has everybody so anxious as this case comes up to the supreme court. >> they have choices about what they hear. talk to me in the question about choices, also about the ...

>> sometimes if i have enough energy to. only in america. barbra streisand is having a special grammy moment. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. tonight, politics, pop and barbra streisand. we begin with president obama getting the business from conservatives. listen to mitt romney today, the at the police call action conference. >> it's been a great conference so far and for that i suppose we should acknowledge president obama. he's the conservative movement's top recruiterment errecruiter. it turns out he really is a good community organizer. i just don't think this ...

>> i believe that in sort of inching at the idea that there are these tapes today. it is clear, we don't know who leaked this story. who leaked this information given the reporting, it is clear it may be coming from michael cohen himself. the idea of the pardon, him wanting the pardon is in the back drop and clear with the story. >> the point liz makes wouldn't be a bad theory, double negative. i botched it. >> hard to do. >> in defending the trump on this tape said that he wasn't aware that he was being recorded at the time. that raises a couple of questions, what was one michael cohen in the...

The idea there are these tapes. today it's very clear, you know, we don't know who leaked this story, this information. but given the reporting i think it's pretty clear it might be coming from michael cohen himself. so he's trying to speak to trump, the idea of the pardon and him wanting this pardon is always in the backdrop and clear i think with this story. >> i think the point liz makes wouldn't not be a bad theory, by which i mean -- i'm sorry, double negative. i botched it. >> it's interesting, too, giuliani in defending trump on this tape has said that he wasn't aware he was being recor...