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White house chief of staff mark meadows, waldron who was cooking up this plot to access voting machines in swing states. what is the legal significance or liability for meadows to be aware of an attempt to access and perhaps interfere with voting machines? >> so mark meadows has long been the kind of key to a potential cooperator who could blow this whole thing open, right? he's privy to what trump knew, he is really the funnel kind of for information coming into the white house and going out from trump to other people. so any pressure that could be put on mark meadows that puts him in jeopard...

Effort to have him cooperate in the department of justice investigation. and then when he made it clear he wasn't planning to do that, then no reason to hold back any further. once you indict somebody in a criminal case like this, you sort of have given up on them as a potential cooperator. i think one of the reasons make mark meadows hasn't been charged yet is either it may be possible he's going to be charged in a bigger conspiracy or there's still hope he might cooperate. with navarro, as with bannon, once you charge them, they'll going to file things and delay things and this is about puni...

Potential cooperator, play it cool, be natural. do what you would normally do. weisselberg could be going into the office and collecting more information while he's there. so the fact he's going in doesn't necessarily tell me that much. >> you've spoken about how much alan weisselberg knows about the former president and the family. how big is that for the case? >> it's not a must have. it's a nice to have. a lot of people online were flipping out over this over the last like day or so saying, oh, if they can't get weisselberg to flip the whole case is not going to happen. that's not true. the...

With regards to the others, the investigation will continue. if there is no evidence, no case that is established against any other defendant, normally what happens is the case just ends without any notice to the public, which could be very unsatisfying. if charges are filed, we'll know when it happens. there's certainly individuals named in that plea agreement in the southern district of florida by name as people who had some potential criminal exposure. those appear to be employees who assisted jeffrey epstein in procuring and arranging for young girls to come to his home. the really interes...

Going to have to possibly approach it differently now that manafort's imploded and ha corsi also. by the way, i think corsi probably, mueller probably bounced him rather than vice versa. in any event, he's no longer a potential cooperator. >> interesting you should say that. listen, another question for you, manafort's lawyers were apparently telling the trump team everything that was going on with the investigation. you wrote a great piece in the west titled "the manafort witness deal implosion is a very big deal." mueller is full little entitled to subpoena manafort council kevin downing and...