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it's donald trump. you know, he tried to ban 1 billion people across the world who are muslim. he told american congressman to go back to their country. we all know what he's like. and we know the republican party were utterly devoted to him no matter what awful awful outrageous things he says. but, here's the thing. this is bigger than that, and i think it is genuinely much more disturbing. so, take this tweet from the staff of the republicans on the house judiciary committee, they are the minority committee, although they have a good shot of being the majority. and they've card ...

nbc news has confirmed he's currently in custody and is set to make his first appearance in federal court just a few minutes from now. let us get to it. joining me now is nbc news nas political reporter sahil kapur, host of "the beat" ari melber and barbara mcquaid. pete, i want to begin with you. this is a bit tricky territory for the d.o.j., is it not? >> reporter: well, it didn't seem to be in his case, in the steve bannon case, though it took the justice department almost twice as long to decide whether to pull the trigger on peter navarro on two counts, one for refusing to give ...

Effort to have him cooperate in the department of justice investigation. and then when he made it clear he wasn't planning to do that, then no reason to hold back any further. once you indict somebody in a criminal case like this, you sort of have given up on them as a potential cooperator. i think one of the reasons make mark meadows hasn't been charged yet is either it may be possible he's going to be charged in a bigger conspiracy or there's still hope he might cooperate. with navarro, as with bannon, once you charge them, they'll going to file things and delay things and this is about puni...

Said this at the top of the show, it is complicated for the d.o.j. once they get involved in these political, partisan areas and indicting members of a former administration, it can be a slippery slope or it can open the justice department up to a criticism that they are partisan themselves and they're going after political rivals. am i wrong about that, pete? >> no, you're absolutely right. and remember how historically the justice department has responded to these requests from congress, and they dealt -- have dealt mostly in the past with subpoenas from congress for current members of the a...

Along with bannon, giuliani and the rest of the conspiracy posse, he is helping to create profound distrust in the american political system and in the american public health system and ultimately in american democracy. the eventual consquensequences their actions may be genuinely stolen or disputed election in 2024 and political violence on a scale the u.s. has not seen in decades, end quote. applebaum calls michael lindell, the pillow's guy name a lover of myths. she wrote the profile as a warning of how dangerous he is. ann applebaum joins me now a fellow at the john hopkins school of inter...