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The people who put this letter together are multiple races. a letter that comes from people of multiple races. do you feel that the future of the resistance is in nonviolent direct action or is it more in electoral politics or in your view is it a mix? >> black women, we know we are the secret sauce to the democrat party winning elections. have been for decades. we know the power of our vote. we also know the power of black women's leadership. we are changing the power dynamic in this country. look at what happened in alabama in 2017 and black women are winning in places that are not majority ...

In your view a mix? >> it's a combination. black women, we know we are the secret sauce to the democrat party winning elections, have been for decades. so we know the power of our vote. we also know the power of black women's leadership. we're changing the power dynamic in this country. just look what happened in alabama in 2017, and black women are winning in places that are not majority black. and we know what happened for president obama who was elected twice for black women. we know black women voted 80% for hillary clinton and tried to tell america to pay attention to what's going on. we ...

James' three theories of why trump lies, but there's now a fourth that you've raised, which is kind of the autocrat signature, which is he lies, and you he'slying, and he knows you know he's lying. and he lies because he's trying to tell you he can get away with it, and no one can do anything about it. now he's also passed it on to his supporters. his supporters support him in the face of the lies being called out because the lies are being called out. it's part of the power dynamic of this trump movement. that's why he attacks the media so much. he tacks anyone who wants to call him on his li...

Intern, right? it's like, an abuse of -- you know. it's like the power dynamic, you know, historic ase o power dynamic. and thene was def by it in a way that his -- y kn, d a very bigprice, but he wasn't defined by it. and in a way, all during impeachment, it felt tome, in realtime and in retrospect, it was all abo men in wer, right? >> mm-hmm. and t woman was just collateral damage. and what's happening now and what i think me too is a lot about is, you know, it was always before sex a politics what does it say about the man? and now it's, what's about the impact of the woman? >> that is what...

That was sort of thinking behind the questioning. and, again, you saw the president's response there. >> yeah. okay. craig, i know you're going to be showing more of this discussion coming up in ce of hours right here on msnbc on your show at 1:00 eastern. i will be looking forward to that in a few hours right here on msnbc. it's always a pleasure to have you on. i want to go to jonathan and shannon who were watching that interview here on set. i know had you seen pieces of it before. on nan were you've cover-- jona covered the clintons for a long time. this was combative there? >> a very te...