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Appeal, there's no real reason for you to seek relief in the supreme court, is there? >> but in the normal case, if you win that case, if you win, then you don't have to continue litigating that. here, sb-8 says there is no preclusive effect. >> you're getting back to the argument that there is a chilling effect. i'm asking for your position in the absence of that. if it's just a regular type of case, surely it's adequate to have federal review at the end of the state court process? >> in the normal case, you are correct, i agree with that. in a normal tort lawsuit, that is adequate. it is the...

This sb-8 is structured that the chilling effect is the very multiplicity of lawsuits that are threatened against you? >> yes, your honor. that's exactly right. it's the fact -- there's a combination of various ways that the state has created special rules, applicable only to sb-8 to make state courts a tool that can be used to nullify constitutional rights that have been recognized by this court. and i think there are four essential components of sb-8 that the legislature created. first, it allows anyone to enforce, regardless of any injury. second, it allows those suits to be brought anywher...

Their preliminary vote two months ago. >> you've been there in front of the supreme court arguing more than 45 times. let's go back to the supreme court in this extraordinary opportunity to listen in, to be in there and listen to what the supreme court is thinking and asking. >> justice thomas, anything further? justice breyer? >> i would like to just be sure that i have this. your basic point, i take it here, as we've discussed it, is this kind of a private lawsuit is not an ordinary tort suit, okay. so i've tried to write down the reasons and i want you to add anything i leave out. one, anyb...

Effect, even if an abortion provider wins a case about that abortion. they still have to continue to face suit after suit after suit, because there's no preclusive effect. it turns the provider or the abortion supporter into a permanent defendant -- >> well, council, i don't want to interrupt your answer to justice sotomayor, but just to pick up on a point that you made. and maybe you can clarify this before you finish answering her question, if you haven't finished already. isn't it the case that the texas constitution requires a plaintiff to show injury, in fact, in accordance with the same ...

It's an enforcer, being used as an enforcer. >> i agree with that, your honor. but your honor, here, the point is that regardless of the outcome of the case, it is the threat of filing an unlimited number of cases in counties all across the state where there is no preclusive effect, and where the state has even made it where are difficult to get an attorney, by making attorneys liable for fees for the other side's fees. >> mr. hearron -- >> all of that creates a threat -- >> keep going, i'm sorry. >> the combination of all of those factors together creates a chilling effect and that under this...