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List and investigated in kentucky. but you think the most impressive evidence for how important it is to get the sanctions lifted is how much time and attention vladimir putin has put to the issue. as you very rightly described in your opening remarks today, it is a central talking point that he does all the time, and they've always thought that some day, some way, president trump would finally deliver on what he promised during the campaign in 2016. >> in terms of how barr is approaching this, this new news, not very much surprises me anymore. i was legitimately surprised to see this report i...

Attacking our election. he asked president trump to make this call to the leader of australia to ask for australian cooperation in this probe as well. obviously when there are law enforcement investigations with an international cast, it's not unheard of to have international cooperation and to have it asked for by the u.s. government. but this with the attorney general personally showing up in foreign countries asking for help on this incredibly politicized thing, as a former ambassador, how unusual is that? how will foreign countries react to that? >> well, i think i made a great point. it's...

West, more toward europe, the european union, maybe even nato someday. russia and russian interests paid darn good money to install a pro-putin, pro-kremlin strong-man leader in ukraine to keep ukraine oriented toward russia instead of toward the west, but that pro-auto putin strong man was thrown out by his own people in part because of him reneging on limits to ally ukraine more with europe and less with russia. russia decided 2014 enough was enough. they decided that they were just going to invade. they marched over the border and took part of that neighboring country for themselves. they d...

Politicized thing, i mean, as a former ambassador, how unusual is that, how will foreign countries react to that? >> well, i think you made a great point. it's not unusual for us to cooperate with the italians or the australians about an intelligence matter, a national security matter. but we're usually doing it to deal with countries like russia, with vladimir putin. we're not usually negotiating our own intelligence agencies. and that's what is so extraordinary and sad, to me, about this reporting. and it just underscores how obsessed president trump is with trying to unravel the facts that ...

"the new york times" this weekend published a long excellent rundown about this big change our country has suddenly gone through toward ukraine and how it hasn't been run through any normal policy process. it hasn't been articulated at all. it's been this off the books odd process involving people who were not sure who they worked for and maybe in giuliani's case he's doing energy deals on the side. just this mess in terms of not even knowing who is acting as a lawyer, who is being paid by who. one of the things "the times" slips in in literally paragraph 75 of this 81-paragraph article is the...