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This -- as eli said, think of it as a hot potato. it's hot because you say, look, we have done everything we can in the congress. we literally are referring this as a public crime. then they say we're going to look at this very closely but there are a lot of reasons they don't love that kind of case. counsel here just gave us one, which sometimes that kind of case you lose, because as i emphasized briefly in the lead, max, it's not a separate crime. it's not like you stole something and you defied the subpoena. you're just on what could be technically called the process argument. but max, does...

But for the fact you have the progressives holding it hostage because they want to make sure this reconciliation package goes forward. that's why you have the process argument happening in congress and joe biden in michigan trying to make the larger point, which is there are a lot of things to talk about that isn't just about the price tag. >> and actually, we should probably update the graphic to put a question mark after the price tag because it's almost certainly not going to be $3.5 trillion at this point based on what we heard. anna palmer, great to have you. >> we're going to take you ba...

Cuomo's future? >> things get getting worse for governor cuomo, mark my words, he's going to fight it. worst public relation's defense of all time when he essentially argued, listen, i'm in appropriate with a lot of people not just victims, the attorney seems to have pivoted to a new strategy which is making process argument. that's what they are going to try on the impeachment side of things and major development that now he's under criminal investigation as well. i'm familiar enough with the cuomos, these are very arrogant people. he is going to try to fight it and ride it out and hold onto ...

Jennifer rogers. jennifer, what is your reaction to how the governor's legal team tried to discredit, begin to discredit his accusers today? what do you make of their defense? >> they are trying to do two things, they argued about the merit and process. i thought the merit was a weak defense. they only addressed two of the 11 accusers and even then tiki tack in the way they try to pick at certain as sppects of the stories. i thought all of that was pretty unimpressive. the process carried weight with me. on one hand, they don't really deserve process. there is no legal right to process in this...

Conspiracy theory that all of these women are somehow lying, that tish james' office has an ax to grind. and you saw little threads there throughout of this big conspiracy theory, everybody's against governor cuomo. i thought it fell really flat, and i don't think it's going to work. >> elie, why would the new york attorney general withhold the full transcripts of the interviews in this investigation? why aren't we seeing more, and what is your view of the overall defense? >> yeah, pam. so the first takeaway is governor cuomo is not going without a fight here. there was some speculation will h...