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Of the president's mouth the last few days is reprehensible. he's supposed to be the healer and uniter, and he's doing anything but. saying people like dr. ford are evil. >> kirsten, to you what is the most persuasive argument in the next four weeks? >> is it the accusations themselves or how the process played out? >> i don't know -- you know, i think the process argument about the diane feinstein issue doesn't really resonate for me, in the sense we don't know what happened, but let's just say she leaked it. leaking is not the atrocity people have made it out to me. and they're trying to pre...

He wants to know can you corroborate ford or ramirez. that is where he draws the line. and the other stuff to him, unless the fbi comes up with something stunning didn't seem to him relevant. fair characterization? >> i think that is where this is all going and this is what jeff flake was asking for. essentially to have somebody independent, the fbi, to come in and try to figure out where the gaps in the story are. you have these two stories from dr. ford and from judge kavanaugh that are so different from each other. he denies it, she claims it, but there are missing pieces to about it. the f...

I want to be interviewed by the fbi and lying to the fbi is a crime. >> she's saying she wants the other person who i named as being there to testify under oath. that should not be lost in all this. >> it's something that's driving me crazy. why won't she testify? what is she afraid of. mark judge has said he does not want to testify under oath. she says she wants to show up before a panel. she just wants it to be done in sort of regular order. it's mark judge is the one who's saying i do not want to testify publicly about what i've said -- about what i've said in this case. >> yeah. >> and i ...

View they share. >> it's interesting, though, that republicans and kind of defenders of judge kavanaugh don't actually want to have that argument about are these issues -- are these accusations credible? they either want to have this process argument, or an argument about whether things that you do in high school are relevant to your reputation in midlife. because they really don't want her sitting there before the judiciary committee telling her story to the american people. >> the grand irony here, they do not want her to show up on monday and they sort of have created conditions in which it...

That should not be lost in all this. >> it's something that's driving me crazy. why won't she testify? what is she afraid of. mark judge has said he does not want to testify under oath. she says she wants to show up before a panel. she just wants it to be done in sort of regular order. it's mark judge is the one who's saying i do not want to testify publicly about what i've said -- about what i've said in this case. >> yeah. >> and i think ken, your guest earlier said something earlier today in his conversations with fbi agents in law enforcement, they said typically someone who's making somet...