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That's something that paul manafort had come into his case, as well. that has to do with the charges. of course, he is a convicted liar. so i don't know what we can believe out of michael cohen's mouth, but that is what he was alleging against the president and the president's attorney from over the weekend. threats against him. no evidence of that. that's what his attorney is saying. >> andy: may i say, though -- a lot of times, nonlawyers use the term "process crime" to convey the idea that it's an unserious crime. as somebody who worked in the process for 20 years, it's quite serious. all t...

Mueller is an integral figure. this doesn't make any sense supposedly investigating the biggest foreign collaborator collusion scandal in the united states history despite years later not a scintilla of evidence has been uncovered that this collusion actually happened. it just seems the american public seem to find this odd? ainsley: you keep saying something that resonates with me. you keep saying when you are an investigator there is a crime and you find out who committed it. in this case they found people and then they find crimes. >> ainsley, this scares me. when you put hand cuffs on peop...

Byron york chief political correspondent of "washington examiner" ," and matthew continetti editor of chief of "the washington free beacon" ." >> what happened to richard nixon and watergate is a tragedy but roger stone seems to have read it as an instruction manual if the indictment is correct. nonetheless, the crime for which he was indicted our process crimes, they are not the crimes that mueller was appointed to investigate. i think the administration is to able to create some space between what happened to roger stone and the president himself. >> bret: josh? >> it does feel like the wall...

Coronation between the state news media and the mueller probe." that's not true. >> rachel: i guess, but -- my main question -- again, maybe andy could answer. you are a lawyer. i look at this in the first thing that strikes me as they said this indictment has nothing to do with coronation. so i would think this might be good news for roger stone. in the sense that -- i mean, yeah, there's always other things, but this whole process and investigation started because there was supposedly coordination. if the indictment says there was a couple you're talking about process crimes. >> andy: the in...

Ed: led people to say this is poisonous fruit coming from that tree because the investigation was sort of a sham from the start as you suggested. less than 30 seconds. are these process crimes? people still each if the investigation started unfairly or under improper terms, you still have to tell the truth to the fbi. you still cannot tamper with witnesses. >> yes. you have to tell the truth. again, as i said, i have no particular insight into these charges right now. but what i am saying, what do i believe is that the mueller investigation right now is being used as a political instrument aga...