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Correct me if i have the process wrong. normally, you would go to a u.s. district court, the lowest level, and oppose the subpoena. that goes up to the appellate court. when that court decides, then you could end up with the supremes and maybe a second appellate court level if you go to a full panel of judges there. is there a way for the special counsel to expedite that once pence goes to court or are you stuck in that process that could take months? >> they'll probably going through the process. they're going to litigate it and see what -- now, they could say our investigation, they could ma...

Inside administrations. what does a move like this do? >> well, it really -- it erodes morale inside. people begin to think, we got two things wrong here. we got the substance of it wrong and got the process wrong. and both of them were terrible mistakes. and it's ironic, john, coming hours after he successfully built a consensus. give credit to jared kushner for pulling that off. to have this, this is complete opposite from a presidential power perspective. i cannot tell you how much once again the united states has turned tail on its own friends. and it's really hard to build your friendship...

Other places and make ambitious plans. that's what the iraqis are concerned about. what's going to happen if things get really bad in syria? there's a border that's very porous and bad guys can cross it. that's. that's what they're worried about and starting to see isign of that happening already. >> you've heard senator corker, marco rubio and others express shock. we have quotes from senior administration officials who are also shocked and clearly there was no coordination between whoever knew in the white house, in the pentagon or the state department, so you've been inside administrations....

You believe particularly, for instance, the environmental movement, they made a lot of mistakes tactically. what is your advice to democrats going forward? >> take the national rifle association as your model on the practical level. i was struck with senator wicker, my former colleague, friend, denigrated this concern about process. in a democracy, process is in -- not as important as substance but it's very important. if you get the process wrong, your substance will suffer. we have on some parts of the left a preference for expressive, emotive activity. let's get this demonstration, everybod...

You go after tactics. you believe particularly, for instance, the environmental movement, they made a lot of mistakes tactically. what is your advice to democrats going forward? >> take the national rifle association as your model on the practical level. i was struck with senator wicker, my former colleague, friend, denigrated this concern about process. in a democracy, process is in -- not as important as substance but it's very important. if you get the process wrong, your substance will suffer. we have on some parts of the left a preference for expressive, emotive activity. let's get this d...