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Could turn this into something for him. >> david axelrod, you want to say something? >> yes, i think another subplot here is what the kind of lesser candidates, only in terms of standing in the polls do, because they have to make a splash to try to stay on the debate stage for september when the standards for getting into the debate get higher. so, you know, you've got a kirsten gillibrand on the stage who has pitched her candidacy around feminist issues. will she go after joe biden on the anita hill case? you've got bill de blasio who would like to be where sanders and elizabeth warren are as...

Kind of front-running progressive candidate. will he go after biden on some of his positions on the crime bill or the bankruptcy bill? i think biden, you know, biden he needs to prove that he is up to it. he didn't look particularly good in the last debate. i think he's going to have a lot of opportunity to do that in this debate. >> so, chris, then you've got senators warren and sanders on the same night. >> yep. >> two people from the progressive wing of the democratic party. they're going to have to differentiate themselves, correct? >> well, it's interesting, don, because that's two people...

Field, elizabeth elizabeth, etc. >> you are the pollster. slightly fewer democrats want a more progressive candidate than want to beat donald trump. >> voters are all over the place and they are off in the conflict. they wanted the candidate who is more likely to win in the fall. there is always a change backlash. always an element of the primary voters. the republican primary voter who is backlash against and move against the establishment candidate and they change candidates. the candidate who can break away and be the centerpiece of a change will give biden a run for his money. >> thanks to...

Progressive battle and take on more progressive issues, i think you have a lot of people in that field, elizabeth elizabeth, etc. >> you are the pollster. slightly fewer democrats want a more progressive candidate than want to beat donald trump. >> voters are all over the place and they are off in the conflict. they wanted the candidate who is more likely to win in the fall. there is always a change backlash. always an element of the primary voters. the republican primary voter who is backlash against and move against the establishment candidate and they change candidates. the candidate who ca...

>> this is the raging debate, brian, that democrats have been having this entire cycle and it started even after 20 -- immediately after 2016 and it's whether or not democrats just want someone that can beat trump and right now biden seems to be winning that argument and claiming that mantle but there is opposite which is that maybe we shouldn't go the route we always go, which is with another older white male and with some return to normalcy. maybe democrats should go towards a more progressive candidate and so that's the argument that people like sanders and warren are trying to make as well...