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Think the train went off the cliff a long time ago. i understand that. but it seems to me that if mueller comes back with clear and convincing evidence, the story changes pretty rapidly. >> wow. jon meacham, always a pleasure. thank you very much. and ever quotable. we'll just let that endnote sit there and folks can contemplate that over the weekend. thank you, jon, for coming on our broadcast. coming up -- >> thanks, brian. >> -- a speech jon meacham knows well delivered on this very day at another time when hatred had taken hold. or so it seemed. this is not a bed...

But if you are part of the mueller effort, joy, what interests you most about all of this? >> here we actually have a clue from one of mueller's prosecutors who in the earlier hearing with mr. manafort, much of which was redacted, we learn there's real interest in this meeting and viewed as being a seminole meeting in the mueller investigation. and i think that that's because, brian, it goes to one of these foundational questions. was this manafort out with a little side hustle essentially where he was trying to get old debts repaid by doing favors to the russians or were there other folks in ...

Involved in this sort of coordination back and forth with russians sharing campaign nfrgs. that's a question mueller is certainly eager to answer. >> ned, talk about manafort as a potential target here, as a potential dupe. he's living part time in trump tower. he offers donald trump his services for nothing. and we know he had, shall we say, mounting financial obligations in his personal life. >> that's right. and we also know, brian, that those mounting financial obligations led to this desire of his to be made whole. and there is great reason to suspect, including on the backs of some fanta...

Russia john, how many times do i have to say it? are you a smart man? i have nothing to do with russia i have nothing to do with russia. >> well, the lies, boys. turns out according to "the times" those top officials were some of the worst offenders. they report 18 undisclosed contact between roger stone and russians before inauguration day. the report 17 for donald trump jr. and six each for president trump and his former campaign chairman paul manafort "the washington post" put it's this way in a damning report of their own -- if trump's advisers lied over and over again, of on about contact...

Will move to quash it and months of litigation probably going all the way to the supreme court. does mueller want to put his investigation on hold while that fight plays out or wrap up his investigation without the subpoena? i think that's the question mueller is asking. i don't know the answer, i think that's the question. >> it's interesting they even went back to the trump team and said we want to talk to the president in person, knowing all of that. thank you for being with us. what do we need to learn about attorney general nominee, bill barr? one of the senators asking him questions to...