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took a donation of a millon pounds from the bin laden family of saudi arabia two years after osama bin laden was killed. the family disowned him in 1994. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk with stephen sackur. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. south africa is in a long—term flirtation with political and economic chaos. mass unemployment, power cuts and rising crime are stoking discontent and instability. my guest today isjulius malema, former anc loyalist turned populist enemy of the ruling party. could one of africa's richest nations be consumed by insurrectionist violence? jul...

my guest today isjulius malema, former anc loyalist turned populist enemy of the ruling party. could one of africa's richest nations be consumed by insurrectionist violence? julius malema in bloemfontein, south africa, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. mr malema, south africans are facing a very grave economic crisis. there's deep uncertainty in the country. why are you adding to that uncertainty by calling for the removal of president ramaphosa? it's the most logical thing that, when a leader of a current government doesn't perform well or the country is in a crisis, that le...

of birmingham. this is bbc news. now, it's time for hardtalk with stephen sackur. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. south africa is in a long—term flirtation with political and economic chaos. mass unemployment, power cuts, and rising crime are stoking discontent and instability. my guest today isjulius malema, former anc loyalist turned populist enemy of the ruling party. could one of africa's richest nations be consumed by insurrectionist violence? julius malema in bloemfontein, south africa, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. mr malema, south africans are facing a ...

julius malema in bloemfontein, south africa, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. mr malema, south africans are facing a very grave economic crisis. there's deep uncertainty in the country. why are you adding to that uncertainty by calling for the removal of president ramaphosa? it's the most logical thing that, when a leader of a current government doesn't perform well, or the country is in a crisis, that leader should leave office and give others an opportunity who can come and do a much better work. because i don't think that mr ramaphosa has got a coherent plan as to how he'...

So you've got to either build a coalition with other opposition elements, or you are never going to get anywhere near power. i didn't know, on the other side, you are a fortune teller. i thought you were a journalist. because you can't tell what's going to happen in 202a. only us who are involved in this work will tell you that the eff is going to win the 2024 elections, and will not need the racist da, if that's what you're concerned about. julius malema, we're out of time, but i do thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you. thank you, thank you very much.