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HARDtalk

because i don't think that mr ramaphosa has got a coherent plan as to how he's going to save south africa. but that's not the way democracy works, mr malema. mr ramaphosa has a mandate given to him by the south african people and, indeed, if you look at the business community, if we're talking about the economy, it seems business leaders think that removing ramaphosa would actually make south africa's situation worse. no democracy works like that. that's why our constitution provides for the resignation of the president or impeachment or a motion of no—confidence. so the democracy you are trying to define now, you can't find it in any of the definitions of democracy. presidents from time to time, including prime ministers, will be asked to step down. you say he should be impeached. you seem to believe he's committed crimes.

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HARDtalk

thinks he's above the law because he enjoys the protection of the capitalist white media in south africa and internationally, so the only thing we have is ourselves. we are going to bring our bodies to the streets and demand that ramaphosa must resign, and that the new president must look into the cost of living, including working on finding us a possible reasonable oil which will ease our pain, because our problem starts with the price of oil in south africa. what's going on here? is it you trying to stir trouble in this country to a point where ramaphosa can no longer govern, and perhaps jacob zuma can somehow be brought back into power? i remember last year you tweeted, saying, "mrzuma, i really need to meet you. "can i meet you for tea?"

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HARDtalk

wrongdoing. the reason why he's been struggling to answer questions to the public protector is because he's got no answers to give. so it's not true that ramaphosa has ever denied, because to deny is to lie and to lie is another charge of perjury, that the whole president existing under oath can loosely lie. you can't quote ramaphosa here on hardtalk where he says, "i vehemently deny the allegations". he says, "i will cooperate with the investigation "authorities". he has never denied that there was something that went wrong. so, let's not say things that the man did not say — and there is no vendetta from us. we are in the opposition. we pursue and hold the executive accountable. we still want answers from what happened in marikana, because... crosstalk. all right, let's not go back to the marikana mines incident

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HARDtalk

and the chief bodyguard of ramaphosa has now come clean, confirming the allegations that were made against ramaphosa as a person was leading that investigation. all i can do is remind our audience that mr ramaphosa denies all of these accusations that you keep sending his way. and the point is, how credible are you? you've been running a vendetta against ramaphosa for years. it's six or seven years since you labelled him a murderer. but the truth is, ramaphosa has won elections, he is the leader of the anc, and you simply refuse to accept his authority. no, but you are also peddling a lie — because ramaphosa never denied the allegations. he said he will answer at an appropriate forum. so you can't, to your audience, speak with authority that ramaphosa denied any

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HARDtalk

from selling livestock, and he's absolutely denied all of the allegations that you've just aired. and the public protector, the ethics guardian in south africa, is now investigating the case, so why don't you just back off a little bit and let due process happen? politics don't work like that, where someone from london tells you to "back off". there's no—one from london who can tell us to back off. we do what we do, and we do it for the best of our people. ramaphosa has brought the office of the president into disrepute and we must be worried, we who love south africa, that our office cannot be occupied by a person with so many accusations against him, including torturing of women. we shouldn't be only obsessed with money. there was a female there who was tortured.

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HARDtalk

because you had your say on that many times over many years. let us focus on what is happening to the people of south africa today. you've got an unemployment rate at a record well over 30%. you've got hunger across the nation. there are people in your nation who are facing starvation. and you, because of your politicking right now, are calling for a "national shutdown". you seem to want to bring the country to a halt. how is that going to help? if you have not been part of picket lines, you will never know how important picket lines are. in south africa, we are where we are today because we've always opted for picket lines and now, we have a crisis with a government that is not held accountable, with a president that

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HARDtalk

but there is absolutely no evidence so far that he has committed the crimes that you're accusing him of. there was money which was stored at this house not declared to the reserve bank, to financial intelligence, to the banks, to sars — south african revenue services. nothing has happened. ramaphosa went to look for people who stole from him from another country without having opened a case with the police, and used the police facility to pursue those who stole from him, managed to get some of them, went to torture them at his house. when you say there is no evidence, i don't know what you are talking about, because the evidence is there. well, you've just cast a host of different accusations and allegations. mr ramaphosa is quite clear that the cash that was apparently found in his phala phala farm was cash that he got

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HARDtalk

we are today because we've always opted for picket lines and now, we have a crisis with a government that is not held accountable, with a president that thinks he's above the law because he enjoys the protection of the capitalist white media in south africa and internationally, so the only thing we have is ourselves. we are going to bring our bodies to the streets and demand that ramaphosa must resign, and that the new president must look into the cost of living, including working on finding us a possible reasonable oil which will ease our pain, because our problem starts with the price of oil in south africa. what's going on here? is it you trying to stir trouble in this country

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HARDtalk

against him, including torturing of women. we shouldn't be only obsessed with money. there was a female there who was tortured. and the chief bodyguard of ramaphosa has now come clean, confirming the allegations that were made against ramaphosa as a person was leading that investigation. all i can do is remind our audience that mr ramaphosa denies all of these accusations that you keep sending his way. and the point is, how credible are you? you've been running a vendetta against ramaphosa for years. it's six or seven years since you labelled him a murderer. but the truth is, ramaphosa has won elections, he is the leader of the anc, and you simply refuse to accept his authority. no, but you are also peddling a lie — because ramaphosa never

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HARDtalk

perform well or the country is in a crisis, that leader should leave office and give others an opportunity who can come and do much better work, because i don't think that mr ramaphosa has got a coherent plan as to how he's going to save south africa. but that's not the way democracy works, mr malema. mr ramaphosa has a mandate given to him by the south african people and, indeed, if you look at the business community, if we're talking about the economy, it seems business leaders think that removing ramaphosa would actually make south africa's situation worse. no democracy works like that. that's why our constitution provides for the resignation of the president or impeachment or a motion of no—confidence. so the democracy you are trying to define now, you can't find it in any of the definitions

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