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probation officer all right 5:00 a.m. here in washington alive. look at capitol hill on this monday morning. good morning. everyone in kasie hunt, it s wonderful to have you with us. new details this morning about the israeli military operation that rescued four israeli civilians held by hamas this new video edited and provided by the israeli military appears to show some israeli soldiers escorting the rescued hostages toward military helicopters on a beach in gaza. these for israelis now reunited with their families and just beginning to recover from their months of captivity. among those rescued 26-year-old noa argamani, who is abduction during the october 7 attack was captured on tape. noa screamed for help as she was forced by hamas members onto the back of a motorcycle. and driven into gaza. the idf raid also resulting in the deadliest day of the war in six months. at least 274 people killed according to gazan health officials the idf disputes those numbers, saying that the number of casualties was under 100 cnn cannot independently verify the death toll and we don t yet know how many of those killed were hamas fighters and how many were civilians. but we do know that the hostages were being held in residential homes in a densely populated area cnn also learning this morning that some idf soldiers disguise themselves as hamas fighters and displaced palestinians to conduct the raid. joining me now to discuss, is cnn political and national security analyst david sanger. david, good morning. i m very grateful to have you here for folks just tuning in after the weekend. a very dramatic time for the israelis here at with this raid. how do you see the fallout here as we see these hostages reunited with their families, but we also try to figure out to count the dead among the palestinians good morning, casey. and i think you ve captured it right? it was an incredibly dramatic weekend. and i think there are three salient points about the rescue. the first is the operation itself was a miracle of terrific intelligence, great covert work, and getting in there and getting them out. then certainly something to be celebrated. there are more than 100 hostages left, but this was clearly a big win on saturday morning when when this all took place. the second is at once again, it came at a great human cost as many israeli operations in gaza have and this is the sort of brutal calculus of this, which is maybe it was under 100 pounds justinian s dead. maybe it was over 200 is a palestinian say, but the fact of the matter is that we saw a huge number of palestinian deaths in order to accomplish the long-sought release of these four and that seems to sum up much of what s happened during the war. i think the third thing we re discovering as monday morning rolls in here, is that after this dramatic weekend, the rescue did very little to change the fundamentals of the problem that is real faces benny gantz, the former defense minister and, and head of idf took a day off or pushed an extra day because of the rescue but resigned from the war cabinet shattering that view of unity and he did so saying that prime minister netanyahu who does not have a plan for the day after four administering gaza yeah, david, in fact, let me pause you there because i did want to get to that next with you and we have a little bit from gantz over the weekend and what he said, how he explained why he was leaving the war cabinet. let s watch sorry. can you regrettably netanyahu is preventing us from advancing toward true victory, which is the justification for the ongoing and painful cost of war that is why we are leaving the emergency government today with a heavy heart, but with full confidence i call on netanyahu, set an agreed election date. don t allow our people to get torn apart so david, he said there that netanyahu is preventing us from advancing towards true victory what does he really getting at here? because he also seem to suggest that netanyahu was unnecessarily prolonging the war right? this has been a long-held view, including among american officials that prime minister netanyahu knows that once the war is over, or at least a ceasefire takes place at the active fighting is done the investigations into october 7 begin in earnest. the intelligence failures israel obviously had a good deal of intelligence. this would happen that it did not respond to the idf s failures. that israeli defense force in responding that day. he assumption is that prime minister netanyahu couldn t not survive that and of course, one of the beneficiaries could well be benny gantz himself, who ran against the prime minister a few years ago, laws. but today is doing well enough in the polls, but it s not inconceivable that he could emerge victorious. also, not certain but what we re seeing now is the united states with benny gantz s help, tried to get the israelis to commit to what president biden called and israeli proposal for ceasefire and prisoner exchange and get hamas most importantly to agree to it may be difficult, more difficult it was difficult before the rescue. it may be more difficult now. and overnight, casey, the us has finally decided to go to the united nations security council with a ceasefire and hostage exchange proposal basically the one the president laid out ten days ago and try to get their approval of it to up the pressure on both hamas and israel very interesting set of developments here. david, very, very briefly does this move by gantz not pushed netanyahu farther into the arms of the right-wing and israel it does he s got a very narrow majority s holding onto. he didn t need gantz s party to stay in. he needed kansas credibility to some degree that deal with the us and the rest of the world. but if netanyahu agrees to the israeli plan which came out of the war cabinet, not out of the political atmosphere and the coalition. he s put together those right wingers have threatened to leave the government. that would bring about a government collapse all right. david sanger forces morning, david, very grateful to have you kicking us off today. i really appreciate it great to be with you coming up next here. french president emmanuel macron calling for new elections after the european union takes a hard shift to the right will explain plus a shooting and wisconsin rooftop party leaves ten people injured and donald trump, but his first campaign rally since becoming a convicted felon the most anticipated moment this election and the stakes couldn t be higher. the president and the former president, one stage moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday june 27th, nine live on cnn and streaming unmatched. i got this thousand dollar camera for only $41 on deal that deal dash.com online auctions since 2009, this playstation five sold for only $0.50. this ipad pro sold for less than $34, and this nintendo switch sold for less than $20. i got at this kitchen aid 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right, two months free. all the best reliable nationwide coverage make this switch today awkward question is you re going to be anything leftover. oh, absolutely my kids don t know what they want. you know, who knows what she wants? we ve empowered, we get all of our financial questions answered. so you don t have to worry, empower. what s next? we re you stationed working or living at campbell as yoon between 1953 and 1987, if you or a loved one have suffered from a severe illness, you may be eligible for a settlement no offer ranging from 100,000 to $550,000 without a court filing. morgan and morgan has already helping over 15,000 veterans and their families families, and the fight towards justice. for more information, call the number on your screen or visit www. dot www.kappelerzhuninjury.com i m melissa bell in paris. and this is cnn all, right welcome back. after four days of european parliamentary elections being held across 27 countries we re seeing a major shift to the right in europe. the center-right european people s party now projected to be in the majority. protesters taken to the streets in paris sunday after the far right in france, scored an unprecedented 31 31.5% of the road. and the french president emmanuel macron dissolved parliament, called for snap elections situ in situation. one like it is a situation to which i cannot resign myself. the rise of nationalists and demagogues is a danger not only for our nation but also for our europe and for francis place in europe and the world. they don t all right, joining us now is cn an international anchor, max foster who joins us now, live from london max, good morning to you. this is a bit of a complicated situation for folks in the us who don t necessarily follow the ins and outs of the european parliamentary elections. but big picture is that we have seen kind of a across the continent these far right parties surging in a way that has really concerned the sort of center right? majority governing parties. and it so much so that you saw emmanuel macron take this pretty significant action. it s a risk for him to do this. why is he doing it and how does it help explain the big picture of what we re seeing here? hi, a lot of people quite baffled because off the back of a european election where in france at least the far-right, did extremely well he s now going into another election. he called it and it s going to benefit the right. many would argue because they can ride on that momentum, but he is effectively saying he wants to hand it over to the french people who he believes are generally moderate. and of his point of view. so he can prove that the european election, which is often a protest vote for european voters, won t actually hold in a national election. so a massive risk, and i think even the people closest to them realize that, but we ll see he, how marine le pen does out of that steadily over recent years she s been increasing in authority and power and she s doing what many of the european parties are doing, which is focusing on immigration. and ukraine and also environment. but on this basis that really resonates with a lot of people, which is that the cost of living is getting worse and worse inflation s going up. we can not afford to do all of those things. we have to hunker down a look at nationalism. and i think if you look at the overall parliamentary picture, then the moderate still hold it. but in the key country, the big economies, france, germany, and italy, the far right? excelled. so it s going to have a huge influence. yeah, we can put up on the screen for people to kind of see in color the way that this broke down in france. so let s set aside the yellow that s other, but that red piece which is clearly the most significant one for a named party, is the national all rally. those are the right wingers that 15% purple that you see the renaissance party, purple, blue. that s macron s party. and max, to be clear, we saw something similar play out in germany and in italy can you talk a little bit about how this strengthens the more right-leaning leaders who are in office in europe well you know, it s already got a right-wing prime minister. so she s empowered and marine le pen, as i say, he s been climbing steadily in germany. a lot of people would view that party. now the second most powerful party in the country as traditionally a very far right party. so it has huge influence because germany and france and italy are the three countries that have most influence over the european union i was interviewing a us expert based here in the. uk earlier on, and she was talking about how this will empower trump effectively. a lot of the wright was rising in europe before trump, but chump managed to popularize a messaging and they ve adopted a lot of that. so he certainly added energy to the rise of the right here in europe and it also means that the more senior these right-wing politicians become, the more contacts and power he has within europe. so it s very empowering to him and his foreign policy. he creates alliances specifically for him within countries which were traditionally us allies. so it has a it will have a big impact on trump if he gets into power and it will cause a problem for biden if it gets into power bi, it s going to be much less supportive of him and his policies going forward. yeah it s an interesting way to think about it. and i also think one of the things that donald trump has done that we remark on it, but i think perhaps not enough. and that is to normalize things that previously were considered out of bounds. and the politics and the way we re thinking about politics. and you can really see that in some of these right-wing up pushes, bringing things in that previously were considered to be verboten are not acceptable on our stages. max foster for us in london, max. thank you. always grateful to have you alright, coming up next cleveland police trying to uncover the origins of a cyber incident that s forcing them to close city hall plus president biden preparing celebrate juneteenth with a little help from some friends sirens are going off and playing the tornado here. i m thinking i m going to die. and i thought that was it. while and earth with liev schreiber, sunday at nine on cnn. we have a new home. what s that? we have of garage door that doesn t lift and we have a gate doesn t open. so i went on. angie took me just a handful hello, minutes. the vendors who came through energy, you were more knowledgeable. they did higher-quality work. they wanted us to be happy with the work done as well. we felt like we got the most value i have a contracted that we chose. it is a beautiful ghraieb. connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well, get started today at andy andy.com there are giant so mug they are the minute woman building or daibes next generation submarines. de are giants and what they do because they work in a place we re, 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godmother of soul patty lewbel at the juneteenth concert on the south long today, other artists attending include gladys knight, charlie wilson, and brittney spencer and oppressive heat ramping up across the west today while drought stricken south florida braces for rain and flooding this week are weatherman derek van dam is here and he is tracking all of it for us. derek, good morning. yeah. good morning. casey. we ve got las vegas sin city. it has had its hottest start in the month of june since records began, that s since 1937, 11. yes, that s not a typo consecutive days where the mercury in the thermometer has reached 100 degrees or more. that is why we have our heat warnings in place for this area. and you know what it s not just inclusive of las vegas checkout, much of arizona and into the central valley of california. the heat continues. we know it was hot last week, but it s going to ramp up through the course of this week as well. if you re in phoenix, i was just there. we could go. yeah. it was sizzling as i stepped off the tarmac and this is 14 consecutive days temperatures above 100 degrees is all thanks to that heat dome. remember that s an area of high pressure that really reduces cloud cover in the sky. so you get maximum exposure from the sun, doesn t take much to heat things up, and we start to see this triple-digit heat blanket. the southwestern us. now the other big story that we have on the docket for today is the flood threat that s going to be ongoing this week across the state of florida, particularly across the southern portions of the peninsula. watch this. there s a cold front approaching an abundant amount of tropical moisture moving in off the gulf of mexico that will bring wave after wave of heavy rainfall starting today. but ramping up through the week, look at tuesday, wednesday, into thursday. we know that it doesn t doesn t take much to flood the streets of miami. well, guess what? more rainfall. we re talking up to locally, ten inches of rain through this week for portions of the southwestern florida peninsula that could bring some localized flooding to the area. so from heat to heavy rain, we ve got it all covered today for you today on monday all right. are weatherman, derek van dam, derrick. see you next hour. thanks very much. all right coming up next new details about israeli soldiers in disguise to pull off a derrick, hostage rescue, plus brand new polling are more voters turning to biden because they just can t vote for trump this election season, stay with cnn with more reporters on the ground. and the best political team business follow the voters, follow the results follow the facts, follow. cnn over 13 million americans were affected by identity theft in 2022. and the threats go way beyond just credit card fraud today s identity thieves can use your information in ways that are easy to miss by just monitoring accounts and credit like opening loans, transferring home titles, even committing crime i 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hamas fighters. and palestinian civilians during the operation the operation did come at a great human cost. scores of palestinians dead, just how many? we don t know. gaza s health ministry says the numbers, at least 274. israel says it s fewer than 100. i am joined now by joel rubin. he is the former deputy assistant secretary of state in the obama white house. joel, good morning to you. wonderful to see you this morning let s start with the raid for people who are two doubt on a summer weekend, just waking up to this news, these four hostages rescued this clearly was something that i mean israeli families of hostages have been increasingly more and more upset about the fact that their loved ones have remained in captivity. what does this mean for them? yeah, it was a dramatic rescue without a doubt and have very high costs as you described with a palestinian loss of life what it means is that the israeli defense forces for a day for a moment, restored confidence in the israeli public about their capacity to deliver and to get their people out. but in the big picture, the best way to get israeli hostages out has been through deals, through a cease fire for hostage exchange, like one that we saw back in november. so a good day for israel, a unity didn t last long. obviously, the politics in israel very, very dicey with benny gantz. now exiting the coalition government. but it was something that the israeli public has been demanding. and now they want more action. they want to see the prime minister lean-in on getting a deal to get these hostages out. of course the toll here was very high in terms of palestinian life. it all so served to highlight some of the tactics that hamas uses talk a little bit more about where these hostages were found. and why there was perhaps so much collateral damage. obviously, much of it should be laying at the feet of the israeli forces that invaded here. but that s not the only thing at play, not at all. the case you re right, it was despicable. display of how hamas d values palestinian life. so many very clear these hostages were held in private civilian homes they were there for months and they were in the midst of what everyone in those areas new was a civilian areas. so israel, by finding these individuals, by rescuing them, it was clear that there were going to be civilian casualties. hamas doesn t care about palestinian civilian life. i i know we ve talked about this before, but this is perhaps one of the most a stark examples of that. if they cared about palestinian civilian life, they would be agreeing to the ceasefire proposal that has been out there and discuss secretary blinken s going out to the region to try to push for this, but in the meantime, hamas is embedding hostages in civilian areas with the clear understanding, this will cause palace let s see any civilian lives for a propaganda bonus may be for hamas, but i don t see how this is a real bonus for anybody in the middle of this conflict. they clearly are not looking at civilians as something to protect inside of gaza. so let s talk big picture for a second. you mentioned benny gantz, of course, announcing over the weekend and he s going to leave the war cabinet. he is, of course, someone that the us has really relied on in the course of these negotiations in this push for a ceasefire that president biden actually announced on a recent i ve friday. here s what jake sullivan, the national security adviser, had to say over the weekend. let s watch keith thinks the best way to get all of vestiges home is in a deal where they re brought out diplomatically, where there s no need for military operations to get every last hostage out. what we would much prefer to see is a ceasefire where the hostages come out peacefully. that is available. israel has said yes to it. now hamas needs to say yes to it. that s where president biden full effort, energy and attention is so bottom line, draw what s the holdup? while the holdup is hamas? the holdup is that hamas is i want to agree to a ceasefire that essentially pushes them out of the power. and that s the genius of this proposal, which is that it lays out a roadmap for preventing at the end state of resurgence of hamas in the gaza strip. and now that, that is, of course, very frustrating as well to the white house, because what we re seeing is the far-right ministers in israel s government rejecting that proposal as well. and now with ben against leaving the coalition it gives them a little more power in the near term, but it also puts the question to the israeli public. and i think this is why the president did go public with his proposal to get the israeli public to recognize the stakes, to put it back in the political arena. this question about how to end this war in a manner that we don t see a hamas resurgence in gaza and so the holdup right now is that hamas understands this proposal is against their interests and that s why we see the secretary going out. that s why it s frustrating that it s not yet done. but hamas, they re hoping for more days of violence, like on saturday where they don t have to make this agreement. and that means more palestinian lives are put at risk. machel rubin for us this morning, joel, always appreciate your experiments for being here all right, let s go now to politics. donald trump, tried to win over voters in nevada. a key swing state with his first official campaign rally since he was convicted on felony charges i tell you what? no third world country has weaponization, where they go after political candidates, like we have either this guy can get elected anything without cheating. the only way he can get elected is to cheat so all of those folks in during triple digit temperatures as trump rally them in an outdoor event in las vegas, nevada. of course, one of a handful of states that could help to decide the presidential election this fall, a new cbs poll shows trump in a virtual tie and a head-to-head race with president biden, both nationally and in these key swing states. today, trump is scheduled to have a hearing with his probation officer ahead of his sentencing next month in new york, cnn s learned. today s interview will be virtual with his attorney, todd blanche president trump me now to discuss nicholas johnston, the publisher of axios nick. good morning. great to hear so yeah, probation hearing for a presumptive sentencing name. you d sentenced you just read off the teleprompter there, i think speaks to the kind of interesting election where in, where that sentence one interest hide across as the country tied and state sentenced to one of the candidates will have a virtual interview with his probation officer. today yeah that s seen as pool. actually interesting because it s one of the first things, places where we seem to see maybe a little bit of movement. obviously the official way we talk about it is that it s tied. there s no clear leader, but there is a little bit get over movement toward biden compared to where this pole previously was. what does that tell you? it s pretty clear across the board that again, within the margin of error is and all of these poles we ve seen a slight polling bump four biden, and then a lot of the surveys were the vast majority of people say that conviction won t have any impact. there is 20, 30% of republicans who say it well, and remember, we ve been talking about for months and months it s in a month. this is a very tight election for donald trump to win. he needs to get more voters and he needs to get the last time. and so far, being convicted of a felony in new york is not leaving more voters for that. but again, all of these are the margin of error. it s like going from trump up to two biden up one that is essentially a coin flip election still. yeah, it is yes. very, very, very close. so let s listen a little bit to some of what trump had to say in this rally over the weekend because is there are a couple of things that stood out to us, including how the former president talked about, well, i mean, he he always uses very often inflammatory language about joe biden. but in this case, he was talking about suicide as well let s watch this du are there this is a front row joe. he said everyone this guy wouldn t it be incredible. he s gone to 250 if he voted for biden, even for by now, i don t think so. i think it would be suicide before by dry a bit extreme i don t know how a front row you thought about that. i think we re seeing that this is trump being trump, like they re even though there s a big conversation a lot about how much will they stick to the issues there s pulling out over the weekend that shows what a strong conjugation issue the economy is as opposed to conviction. and so can trump come out and just talk about the economy and immigration for the next six months. i think that little snippet shows that will been a challenge for some of the president s former president s advisers. they gotta to do that. yeah, let s talk about nevada specifically for a second at trump also was up there. this is sort of a typical line, but he said it in front of it. a crowd. again, it s a very heavily hispanic at stateless watch. what trump had to say about hispanic and african-american voters joe biden is also weighed. you re going all out war on the workers have america, especially african americans and hispanic in america i spanish americans and african americans are the ones suffering most with his incredible illegal alien group that s coming in so this is, this is pretty typical for how trump talks about this kind of thing. but i think what s going on in nevada is particularly interesting. i will say i have okay to a lot of sources recently who think that it actually may go for trump. this time around and it s part of it s part of the reason is because of some of the themes that he is talking about. there, there are a lot of workers that tourism economy, cassino workers, who in the past had gone for democrats who may actually go republican this time you hear this was a big, i mean, again, this is a point-slope election. there s a lot of things happening that people don t really understand because this is such a different election than ones previously. and i think one of the ones that republicans are trying to capitalize as those capitalizes, in row on minority voters with hispanic americans or african americans, as well. that s clear on the polling data that donald trump is doing better with those groups in previous republican candidates. and i think his campaign, his advisers, he, that is a huge, massive opportunity. again, the same way that if a small amount of those republican voters are moved by the conviction, if a small amount of minority voters are moved by some of the present former president s economic arguments that the election right, they re all on the line. all right. nick johnson for us, nic, always great, to have you. thank you all right. come on up next and update on the condition of those just four rescued israeli hostages plus caitlin clark rebounding how she s trying rejection into motivation silent burst with liev schreiber sunday at night on cnn i m getting vaccinated and pfizer s pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine syllabi because i m at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia already gotten pneumonia vaccine. but i m asking about the added protection of krever 20 if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, prevnar 20 is approved in adults to help prevent infections 20 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia in just one dose, don t get prevnar 20 if you ve had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients adults with weekend the immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are pain and swelling at the injection 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publish it for you. have you written a book page publishing can help you through the process. we cut through the confusion of the publishing world to make it easy for you call 800 630741 all right, welcome back. eight months of prayers for for families. finally answered this weekend as the israeli mannose military managed to pull for hamas hostages from two locations to safety one of the hostages were rescued noa argamani. she was kidnapped by hamas from music festival and was seen on video being forced onto the back of a motorbike? know his father said that the reunion that she had with her family was difficult. her mother has late-stage brain cancer and was unable to express her feelings professor hagai levine is the head of the health team at the hostages and missing families forum and joins me now from tel aviv, professor, thank you so much. for being here at noaa is being treated at the same hospital as her mother is. what are the primary concerns for her as she tries to recover after spending eight months and kennedy e-tivity when of course it s very motion to be back in his word to meet their mother. unfortunately, my there is very very sick and i m not even sure if she understood that noise here. that s the bet. that s shows that when the camo send people were kidnaps, also the families were kidnapped. and we see and we also almog father yossi meir funeral was last night and he did not he just died. a few hours because he received before the news that design is about no, i cannot disclose personal information, but i can say is that also in general and she s in a much better shape than what we were well, concern. there are not only psychological, but also physical issues related to captivity. i bought her personally the. last says that she needed for eight months where she had to use contact lances. obviously, it s not good for eyes and it s now she has struggled because, you know, a massive is so sick so with the joy, joyfulness of coming back home, and she cannot be completely happy and with friends, 120 the hostages, including friend, had been done while still in captivity can you give us a sense for the others who also were rescued, what their physical condition was like, what their mental state was like, and what the coming months you re going to look like for them so i ll morgue and why and shlomi, were together for long period of times. i must say this zero resilience and zero support of each other. i ll remarkable. it s really showed us what the human spirit can do. and, you know the stress anytime in captivity could be your last moment it sometimes it s the small anecdote as they talked each other languages. and andrei i taught them rushing and zealand the some arabic. i m saying together with all the physical and mental and other assaults, it s also very they re showing in a sense to see how they will able to cope with the situation. which reminds me, you know, the story is about cml gut with the student at the hebrew university where i teach 42 or therapy. and she provided yoga lessons for foil mates in captivity. we don t know what is going with her right now. it s clear they will need a very long recovery process shlomi cannot return to his home up in the nose because there is well, when gonzaga and is home is attacked and it will take months and the ears, it s also for the house. the other families. it s great joy, but the concern is enormous. they cannot really the release hostages. they cannot really full when they know that their friends are still there. and i must say with some void because because today in the israeli parliament, the families of the hostages were attacked by the extreme right-wing members of the parliament, which in a way told them that they should be sacrificed i m sorry to say that and we we know that the only way to get all the 120 hostages back dead or alive is by a deal. there was a deal that was put on the table by president biden, and i think it s all of us and i m through your show, i want to deliver to the world. we must put the pressure on the hamas and it s allies to accept the offer and to stop the bloodshed and released all those just because all of them are entitled to go back home. all right a professor hagai levine for us this morning, sir. thanks very much for your time. i really appreciate it thank you very much case. all right. time now for sports, the boston celtics. now just two wins away from a record-breaking i think 18th nba championship. after rallying and then holding off the dallas mavericks in game two of the nba finals coy wire has this morning splits your appoint coin. good morning. thanks up of the morning to uk s see the celtics faced pressure all season of past play off failures and being the league s best team. but it looks like they have what it takes this time around masdar luka doncic pre-game was all wrapped up in ice and up was potentially going to miss game to with everything from his chest to his knee banged up, but he did go any did register struck triple, double, 32 points, 11 rebounds, 11 assists for the celtics, just too much. one of the unsung heroes, jrue holiday clamped down deif calls himself for utility guy, but it leaves a team in scoring last night with 26, he was nine for nine in the paint and watch this effort. maths have a chance to bring it within three with under a minute to go. but jaylen brown and derrick white hustle block the shot. brown finished with 21 white and tatum 18 celtics take a 2-0 series lead with a 10598 when here s a two-time awesome an olympic gold medalist holiday, or what makes this year celtic so special i think when you sacrifice together, you do something together brings you closer i think being able to go through wins and losses and to build something it means a lot. i think the best with this team has done from from one to 15, somebody sacrifice something. so it s been great in the journey has been awesome, but i ve been in the day the judge and scottie scheffler has been through it all over the past month. de and his wife, meredith, welcoming their first child his arrest at the pga championship in louisville, then having the charges dropped yesterday, he found themselves back on top winning the memorial tournament, finishing eight under its fifth win in his last eight starts, his first wins is baby bennett, though. scheffler, full of emotion after the win that s pretty fun it s one he s getting sunburned out, looks like but it s this tournament is a very special to us and it will be for a long time because this the future of tennis is in good hands with 21-year-old carlos alcaraz, who rally from being down two sets to one to claim his first french open title. he s now the youngest man to win a grand slam on all three surfaces running around like the tasmanian devil, bewildering alexander zverev on the famous play algorithm, falling to the ground and victory then had gone over to give mom and dad of big o hug. he said he s been dreaming of winning the french open since he was 5-years-old. finally, caitlin clark park is commented on not being picked to play for team usa at the paris olympics next month, the indiana fever rookie phenom, who has helped shatter women s hub s viewership and attendance records so being left off the roster will only make her better listen honestly, no disappointment. i think it just gives you some them something to work for. you know, that s a dream hopefully one day i can be there and i think it s just a little more motivation. you remember that and, you know, hopefully in four years when four years comes back around, i can be there. i m going to be written commando it to win gold i was a kid that grew up watching the olympics. so, yeah, it ll be it ll be from the washington or fever coach christie sides said the kaitlan, texas sinner about not being selected, casey and she said they woke a monster. the us women are seeking an h street gold at the olympics and they don t have any players currently on the roster under 26. katelyn, just 22, plenty of time to still get some of that red, white, and blue she does have plenty of time. we ll all be pulling. well, i ll be pulling farm coy thanks. i really appreciate it coming up next here. more details on how four israeli hostages were rescued in a deadly operation in gaza, plus oh. my god. oh, my god. oh my god oh my god. beachgoers on high alert after two shark attacks leave three people hurt in florida alder chains it s cold, calculating, cynical, and needs the money. not only was the cia compromise, he also was compromised secrets and spies. a nuclear again, sunday at ten on cnn or your cooking on a black stone, you get a better experience. you ll have bigger adventures it but part of that outdoor cooking revolution with your blackstone doula, every breakfast lunch, and dinner, you create from fast and font it s a low and slow, good. anything anytime, anywhere go to your nearest black stole retailer or blackstone products.com. now and 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and of course, he s trying to become president of america again and the other is about the business models of news, because they are under ever more pressure. and when it comes to the business model, we are also looking at al and journalism, because several news organisations have done recent deals with the big tech firms. so that is all coming up. on this week s programme, we re going to hearfrom andrew neil, who has a brand new show on times radio. he s also the chairman of the spectator group. and we rejoined by caroline waterston, the relatively new editor in chief of the daily mirror. yeah, we ve also got two guests coming out of the states one, katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent at business insider. but the first person we spoke to isjeffrey goldberg, who is editor in chief of the atlantic. and we started off by asking him just to sum up what the atlantic is. how is that even possible? on the rare. just in case people don t know, it s a 167 year old magazine founded in boston. 18. 1850s, before the civil war. politics, culture, literature, remains committed to those coverage areas today. but we try to explain america to itself to some degree. i think that s one of our purposes. we have a monthly magazine with a large subscriber base. we have a million subscribers, including digital subscribers. we reach a pretty wide array of people across the us and other parts of the english speaking world. and i think i m right in saying you re privately owned by emerson collective, which is an organisation set up by laurene powelljobs, widow of the apple founder steve jo bs. just explain to us how that works. yeah. laurene and emerson collective bought the atlantic seven years ago. it works, knock on wood, wonderfully well. she s a great owner. we have complete editorial independence. she s very supportive of the mission, as is the whole organisation. we re a for profit organisation, although emerson collective has a for profit and a not for profit, separate wings. we are profitable on our own, which is a good thing and fairly rare these days. i m just thinking about. i ve been thinking about the washington post a lot of the last couple of days. well, we definitely want to ask you about some of the announcements at the washington post. and we want to ask you about your route to profitability, because that was one of the reasons we were so interested to have you on the programme. before we get into the details of what you ve done at the atlantic, i just, with katie s help as well, and a guest who sjoining us, want to put what the atlantic is trying to do and what all publications in the news arena are trying to do in some context. yes, because katie notopoulos is from business insider, and ijust thought it d be useful if she just gave us a recap on the structural problems facing the industry. because, katie, you know, as has already been mentioned, much of this comes back to advertising, doesn t it? right. so one of the biggest problems isjust that| digital advertising, - which was what supported journalism for many decades or centuries, has sort- of dried up. facebook and google are very effective at being digital- advertisers, and they ve just sucked up a lot of the ad - dollars out there. so if you re a brand i like pepsi, it s easier to put your dollars somewhere else than to run an ad - in a publication. and that has really affected . the industry across the board. and you obviously. there s a lot of other| factors going on, just the rise of digital, - and therefore print is not as popular as it used to be. but i think. you know, there are some bright i spots, and there s reason to be i hopeful about the state - ofjournalism and being able to sustain media businesses. katie, thank you. jeffrey goldberg from the atlantic, let s bring you back in. you launched your online paywall in 2019. tell us about that decision and what s happened since. yeah, well, it turned out to be excellent timing, because the pandemic hit the next year and advertising bottomed out. we re holding our own on advertising. we have good people doing it. and, you know, it s not going to be the primary source of revenue for this company going into the future. we ve switched, actually, since 2019. we re now majority. you know, the bulk of our revenue comes from subscriptions, the consumer business, not advertising, but advertising is still an important part. but we launched this paywall. i mean, obviously, we re a print. we ve been a print magazine since the 1850s. we ve had long experience of being a subscription based organisation. when we entered the internet in a big way in the mid 90s, late 90s, obviously programmatic ad revenue, other forms of advertising, became huge for us. but we finally decided, the company finally decided in 2019 to launch a paywall for a digital product. and thank god we did, because a combination of pandemic news and trump news really accelerated our growth in the next couple of years. and that brought us, we just crossed a million subscribers total. half of those. roughly half of those subscribers are print and digital and half roughly half are digital only. all news organisations are diversifying the type of content that they re making. i wonder, aside from the trademark atlantic long articles which many people will know, what else you offer digital subscribers? well, we have a daily report. you know, we re not building a second newsroom, or a third newsroom in the washington post case, for tiktok videos or whatever it is that they re doing. you don t sound overly impressed, jeffrey. no, i m just feeling generally dyspeptic today. so you re just getting. just getting a general vibe. hopefully, that s nothing to do with you coming on the media show! god, no. glad to hear it. just checking. this is the only meeting i m looking forward to today. sorry, we interrupted you. no, no, no. it s ok. i d rather make jokes than talk about the business ofjournalism. i think that. so when i started as editor eight years ago, you know, all i wanted to do, and i have, you know, laurene s100% backing on this, make highest qualityjournalism, because highest quality journalism is the only thing that people will pay for. you know, if we had put all of our eggs in the programmatic ad revenue basket, we d be in bad shape, and so on. and so i think doubling down on what you do best, and doubling down on making a unique. unique stories that people will actually pay you for to read is the way to go. and so we have a much more. you know, obviously, 30 years ago, before the internet, the atlantic came out, it was a, you know, more leisurely paced thing. today, we publish every day. we publish, you know, every hour in busy times. but we re still trying to maintain that level of quality and differentiation so that we can convince readers to become subscribers. i m going to pause you there, sorry, just to bring in andrew neil, because some of this with your spectator hat on must be sounding quite familiar. jeffrey s talking about a million subscribers. how. you re a subscription model as well? we are a subscription model. the spectator has about 100,000 subscribers in the uk, 20,000 in america, because we just launched there, and about 12,000 in australia. if you get the business model right, the digital age can be a golden age forjournalism and publications like atlantic monthly and the spectator. but you need to get it right, and you need to realise that the old business models will bankrupt you. so when i took over the spectator in 2005, 65% of our revenues came from advertising. today, it s less than 10%. advertising is only our third biggest revenue stream. we ve had to seek new revenue streams. we put a very tough paywall up about 12, 14 years ago. 80% of our revenues now come from subscription. and it s a wonderful business model, because subscription revenues are predictable. i know within 5% plus or minus what s coming in this year, because i know the renewal rate, i know what the marketing will produce, and it s not subject to the economic cycle, unlike advertising, which is highly unpredictable. so you get that right and you re a golden age. the poster child of all this, of course, is the new york times, which now has nine million subscribers, more foreign correspondents than it s ever had in its history. and they got in early, didn t they? that was part of it. they got in early, as some of us did too. the times and the sunday times in this country are now highly profitable on the subscription model. and then you need to look, in addition to subscription revenue, for other streams of revenue, streams that you would never have thought of before. so, for example, of course, you still take some advertising. you take very little programmatic. because here s the problem if you re a subscription model, you re providing a premium website, and you don t want your website punctuated by endless ads for things that you have no control over. so you really need to control that. and you re talking about digital dimes in terms of programmatic, but instead, you do newsletters, you do podcasts, you have spectator tv and other ventures like that. and above all, our second biggest stream of revenue events. we do events that expand the brand and bring in a ton of money. 0k, caroline waterston, i want to bring you in because this presumably isn t sounding very familiar to you because it isn t something that you re doing at the mirror. have you ever thought about subscription? have you ever thought about a paywall? it s not on the mirror s agenda. i mean, certainly from my point of view and from the mirror s point of view, you know, i believe that our content should be available to a wide community and not just those that can afford it. you know, we are a news brand. i want to ensure that everyone has access to our content, and certainly it s not on our agenda. but what does that mean financially? you re taking a hit. do you believe. ? imean, are.? are you essentially of the belief that a paywall is this too dramatic, a paywall is a threat to democracy? is that how you see it? no, it s just not on our agenda at the moment. that s because it doesn t work. we talked. well. for red top tabloids, it doesn t work. the sun tried it and had to abandon it. you know, it s different with atlantic, spectator, times, sunday times, financial times. people are willing to pay. ..new york times. people are willing to pay for that kind ofjournalism. the problem with what we used to call the red top tabloids is that people won t pay for it digitally. of course, in the old days, they paid for it by putting their money down to buy the paper. but it seems that a lot of that kind of content, they think they can already get almost for free on the net. so they re not. it s a. of allthe. you know, all of our industry from the top to the bottom has had to withgo digital waves of change. the toughest part of the market to get right is the red top tabloid part of the market, because the subscription model doesn t work. caroline? yeah. and, look, good quality journalism is exactly what we want to do. but good quality journalism shouldn tjust be available to those that can afford to pay it. so, yes, we are an ad model. ads help fund. ..our journalism. and certainly. that s where we are at the moment. in terms of the experience of the user, the digital user of yourjournalism, do you have any concerns that the proliferation of adverts, which you need in order to fund the work you re doing, lessens the experience? look, it s something i think about every day, but, you know, ads are a part of life, and certainly from the mirror s point of view, we have to produce good quality journalism, and ads help us do that. 0k. let s bring you back in, jeffrey goldberg, because what about your experience in the us, particularly relating to donald trump, who we know back in 2016 drove huge levels of news and news related content consumption? are you seeing the same thing this time around? 2016 and 2020. i wouldn t say. well, first of all, we have a much tougher paywall, so that limits the sort of explosive numbers that you would have seen 2020, 2016, in particular. i think there s also fatigue. you know, these are. these are characters in now what would be called a long running drama, right? trump and biden as well. i think there is some fatigue with it. all that being said, yeah, there s. there s obviously an unusual election taking place. i m trying to use the most anodyne words possible. there s a consequential election taking place and people are. our kind of reader in particular is going to be very engaged in it. but, you know and i think this is a lesson from the washington post in a way you can tjust assume that political news will continually spike for you. i mean, you have to do the thing that s the right thing to do for your publication. it s mission first. and if you forget that, you re going to lose your subscribers eventually anyway. butl. we re not going to see the same crazy numbers that we saw in the past. but obviously, this is not a normal election. and trump does draw an extraordinary amount of attention. i want to ask you further about trump, but you ve alluded to the washington post a couple of times. we should say that on monday, sally buzbee, we heard, was leaving her role as the washington post s executive editor, to be replaced by robert winnett from the daily telegraph. and will lewis, who s the ceo of the washington post, said, we are losing large amounts of money. your audience. this is to staff. your audience has halved in recent years. people are not reading your stuff. i can t sugar coat it any more. so the washington post is looking to change its strategy. but coming back more broadly to donald trump, this is a question we ve asked a number of times on the media show over the years, but it doesn t make it any less pressing. you ve called the election consequential and unusual i m sure there are other words you would use, too. how do you, as the editor of a hugely consequential magazine and publication in the us, approach the challenge of covering donald trump? and i m interested to ask andrew and caroline the same question afterwards. you know, we. we had this problem in 2016, where we were trying to. you know, we were following the old rules, you know, to some degree, which is. and the old rules were the old rules of coverage, what people would call both sider ism. the old rules worked.when you had candidates who operated within certain lanes, lanes of self restraint, lanes of adherence to democratic norms, when candidates felt shame and repositioned themselves based on feedback, regarding the things that they do. you know, the most important thing for me, and, you know, we try to get it right, and a lot of other people are trying to get it right, and a lot of people are trying to catch up the most important thing is that we describe things plainly. right? not euphemise, because donald trump s behaviour is so novel i mean, it s not novel any more, but it s still novel historically and that. you know, and that we don t become. and this is what i m always encouraging our staff about. we don t normalise to this. our own, you know. oh, well, trumpjust said that, you know, the north korean dictator s head is made of cheese. oh, who cares? he always says stuff like that. no, and we have to do it every. we have to report the oddness, whenever it erupts, and that. by the way, this means. we re notjoining the resistance. we neverjoined the resistance, which means we also questionjoe biden s capacities, for instance. that s how you re approaching it at the atlantic. i wonderfor the daily mirror here in the uk, caroline, how do you.? do you approach donald trump like any other politician? or are there particular things you tell your colleagues look, we have to be careful here ? look, trump is an interesting character, but at the weekend, you ll hopefully have seen we actually had the world exclusive of stormy daniels, post everything that happened last week. and, you know, the content that comes out of trump in his everyday life and how he acts, i mean, it creates brilliant, brilliant content for our audience. that s honest. yeah. andrew, let me bring you in here now, because we have senior british executives at the wall streetjournal, the washington post, cnn and bloomberg news. what do you make of this exodus of senior british editors in the direction of the us? bbc too. mark thompson. mark thompson, former bbc. ..is at cnn and was at the new york times. of course, we always put ourselves down, but british journalism is vibrant and dynamic and hugely successful. and we know how to write and we know how to write concisely. well, not for the first time on the media show, we ve been talking about artificial intelligence, and the item that we re going to see now is all about search results that are being produced by new ai products. yeah, this is quite a fun one because google has got a new search called ai overview, a search product, and it is coming up in some cases with some pretty crazy results. and i started by asking katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent of business insider, tojust explain how it all works. so it s not on every single search, it s only on certain searches, typically ones that are sort of asking a specific question versus, you know, searching somebody s name or something like that. and it basically gives you a little bit of. maybe a couple sentences, a little paragraph, maybe a few bullet points that essentially answers your question. and this is probably very useful for most searches most of the time. but it was initially sort of riddled with laughable errors. i mean, one of the things that i do know that you did this really is dedication to yourjob you made a pizza with glue and ate it. just explain why you did that. slightly gimmicky. i m assuming it was for a piece. it was. piece of pizza! americanjournalists are ready. all in the line of duty. ..to undertake these big challenges. laughter. yeah, some people have to cover donald trump s trial. some people have to eat pizza with glue on it. right. basically sounds like i the same thing, really. exactly. laughter. one of the sort of silly answer that was going most viral on social media was someone had asked, how do i get the glued cheese to not slide off my pizza? and google suggested, you know, let the pizza cool for a while. and then it also said, add one eighth of a cup of glue to the sauce. so you re the only person in america who did it. ..it had sourced that little piece of information from a reddit comment that had suggested that obviously as a joke. and everyone on reddit at the time, when they were reading it, could understand in context that the person was making a joke that to keep the cheese from sliding off your pizza, you should add glue to the sauce. google sort of couldn t understand that this was satire, that it was a joke. so, not great. i mean, ijust should bring in. well, google have said about this, because they ve told the bbc, these were isolated examples, generally very uncommon queries, and they aren t representative of most people s experiences, and that the vast majority, it says, of ai overviews provide high quality information with links to dig deeper on the web. and it said it s taken action where policy violations were identified and it was using them to refine its systems. just in the last couple of minutes of the programme, let me ask a further question about al, and it comes down to when big organisations that have content, like the atlantic or the spectator or the mirror, decide whether or not to share all of that content with the big language models that are training generative ai. and jeffrey at the atlantic, jeffrey goldberg, you ve cut a deal with openai. tell us about the discussions within the atlantic, whether you were weighing up whether to do that or not. well, ijust have to be technically clear about something. the editorial team has independence from the business side of this operation, but the business side has independence from the editorial side. and this was a decision made by the corporation and by our business leadership to do this. and so.i was certainly told about it, and i was.invited to share my views on it, but, you know, i. what are your views on it? well, i have my ambivalence about it. i mean, i don t want to. i forget who was saying this before, but, you know, the internet has turns out been great for a place like the atlantic. we reach many, many more people than we used to because of the internet. i don t want to be, you know, sort of axiomatically luddite about this sort of thing and say, ai is only a threat, but i have my deep ambivalences about.ai and what it s going to do tojournalism and also, by the way, humanity and the future of our planet. all that being said, ai is coming whether or not i want it to come. and it s a little bit like, to me, complaining about the weather. the weather doesn t care that i don t like it. so i ve got to dress for the weather, and dressing for the weather in this case means trying to figure out a way to have a relationship with openai in which openai doesn t eat you for lunch. let me just ask quickly caroline and andrew very quickly, if you would. caroline, how s the daily mirror viewing the idea of sharing its content with these ai, these big ai operators? we wouldn t. we wouldn t want to. you re not planning to do that yet? no, we re not- planning to do that. and the spectator? we won t do that until we know a lot more about it. if it s another potential stream of revenue that doesn t carry risks, that s one thing. but we need to know a lot more. for me, the al s biggest opportunity is on the commercial side. i think a lot of the ai can help us run the company commercially much better. we can learn more about our readers, about usage of the app, usage of the website. all that sort of thing is fine, but forthe moment, i ll keep editorial separate. and i lljust add, the new york times is taking a very different approach to this. it s not collaborating with openai. in fact, it s suing for the theft of its content. so we re going to watch how that plays out. and i was at the enders deloitte media conference yesterday, where anna bateson, who runs the guardian, said they would do a deal with an ai company, but only on the right terms. so there you go. well. something to end on, because that is all we have time for, i m afraid. thank you so much to katie notopoulos from business insider and, of course, andrew neil from times radio, but also the spectator. and caroline waterston, editor in chief of the mirror, and jeffrey goldberg, editor in chief of the atlantic. well, thanks very much indeed to all of our guests. fascinating to hear their perspectives on all those issues. i suspect it won t be the last time we turn to ai, to business models of news, to covering donald trump, but it was very interesting to hear from all of them. i think you re right. thank you so much to everybody. that was the media show. we ll be back at the same time next week. bye. bye bye. and if you d like to hear a longer version of today s show, search bbc the media show wherever you get your bbc podcasts. hello there. it s been a pretty decent start to the weekend. there was a good deal of sunshine around across most of the country. a bit of cloud here and there, a few showers, mostly in the north. part two of the weekend doesn t look quite as good. it will start sunny, quite chilly. but we ve got a couple of weather fronts pushing down from the northwest that will increase cloud through the day, with some splashes of rain. now, we ve got this weather front approaching the northwest of the country to move through this evening. showers merging together to produce longer spells of rain for the north and west of scotland. so unsettled, breezy, showery in the north, turning cloudier for northern ireland, but clearer skies for large parts of england and wales, with lighter winds here. so it will turn chilly for most. single digits, i think, for the majority of the country. but with more cloud across northern ireland, we will fall to around 10 degrees in belfast. so sunday, then, we ve got low pressure still towards the norwegian sea there, bringing northern westerly winds into the country. we start off with quite a bit of sunshine. scotland, england and wales, cloudy skies for northern ireland, southwest scotland, in towards north west england, north wales. and that cloud, with splashes of rain, will spill south eastwards through the day. so it will turn cloudy across much of england and wales, probably the best of the sunshine across the far southwest, and the northern half of scotland doing pretty well, with sunny spells. but there will be blustery showers here and a cooler day to come, i think, because of more cloud around temperatures of about 12 to 17 degrees. as we move through sunday night, that area of rain splashes across the irish sea, into much of england and wales, becomes confined to southern and eastern areas by the end of the night. so where we have the cloud and the rain, then, a less cold night here, 10 to 12 degrees under clearer skies. further north, it will turn chilly. we start to pick up a northerly wind as we move into monday. that rain slowly clears away from the south and east. it may take a while to clear the east of england. eventually, it will do. then it s a bright day for most, sunshine and showers. most of these across the northern half of scotland, where they will be quite blustery and a chilly northerly wind at that. temperatures, 10 to 14 degrees in the north, 15 to 17 further south, giving some sunny spells. and we hold on to this chilly northerly wind through tuesday, even into wednesday as well. before low pressure starts to move in from the southwest, that ll cut off the chilly northerly and temperatures will slowly recover towards the end of the week. but it s going to be a fairly unsettled and a cool week to come, with a little bit of sunshine here and there. live from washington this is bbc news. four israeli hostages abducted last october are reunited with their families after israeli forces free them from captivity in gaza. , says 200 palestinians were killed in that raid by the idf. two hospital say they have counted scores of bodies. we will have the latest from the uk general election campaign as the conservatives pledged tax cuts and labour promises to help small business. good to have you with us. four is really hostages taken by hamas during the october seven attacks have been reunited with theirfamilies. israeli forces in gaza killed scores of palestinians in the operation to free them. special forces raided two locations in broad daylight. one soldier was killed. thomas says that more than 200 palestinians were killed in the operation. a military is spokesman said they were under 100 palestinian casualties. a top diplomat condemned the raid and in a post on xjoseph borrell wrote that reports from gaza of another massacre room calling. we condemn this in the strongest terms, the bloodbath must end immediately. joe biden s free step plan is put forward as a way to end the killing. the us president spoke out. here is a press conference. i out. here is a press conference.- out. here is a press conference. ., ., . .,
that s it for me. thanks for watching. tune in tomorrow where i am speaking with congressman jerry connelly. plus, senior adviser and spoke s person for president biden s campaign, adrienne elrod joins us to talk importance of border security to voters ahead of november s election tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. follow us on social media using the handle, at weekend capehart. listened every episode of our show as a podcast for free. scan the qr code on your screen to follow. but, keep it right here. a frightening film about a serial killer. robert barnsley: .he d say, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really really show that you re enjoying it. we had talked about how would you kill somebody and get away with it. i had dark thoughts and shared them with the serial killer. it was supposed to be a movie, a frightening film about a serial killer. you grit your teeth and really show that you on bare enjoying it. but, was it really just pretend? eels get down on the ground and took out duct tape. i have never in my life felt fear like that. a rising young film director filming a murder, or actually committing one? he told me well, you liked dexter. when you take a step back you realize this is a real man who has been murdered. the script was darker than anyone knew. like holy mackerel. who are you, really? everyone was on the edge of their seat. and underground parking garage, you are watching a violent attack caught on tape. who was this? what is happening? or, did it happen at all? movies, like that one, are by design, deceptive. make-believe worlds, but have you noticed maybe it is all the technical doodads and digital cameras. some stories that claim to be true or not. anybody can manipulate reality, sometimes what they say is true is it. sometimes, fiction turns out to be fact, and then there are stories, just a few, and which fact and fiction fuse and that is where we are going tonight, a twilight zone world of illusion and deception and deceit. follow the howling wind north across a vast prairie through brief, brilliant summers and winters as frigid as any on earth to a metropolis canadians call the gateway to the north, the city whose police department stays very busy. this is detective bill clark. the city is edmonton, canada. today i got a call from a family whose son was killed in december. nothing in a career so strange as the case of a man who went missing and bill clark found himself in another world between fantasy and illusion. have you ever seen a case like this before? never in my life. when it started out, it seemed perfectly simple, a missing man, some guy just dropped out of sight, the kind of thing that tends to sort itself out once the so-called victim sobers up. i m not thinking much is going to come of this. after clark s decades of service in the city with the highest murder rate in canada, you can hardly blame them for getting a little picky. we don t usually go to missing person. unfortunately, for us to come out you ve got to be dead and it had better be criminal. if the patrolman doesn t know it s criminal, don t bother calling us. yeah, you got enough to do. which explains perhaps why some of the locals have taken to calling their city, deadmonton. our concern is, do we have a foul play. the missing person in this case is a man by the name of john altinger. 39, single, worked in the oil industry, liked to ride motorcycles. unlucky with women, yet, a wide circle of friends who are now telling the police altinger seem to have dropped off the face of the earth except the strange emails he was sending. i ve left with a woman, i m going to costa rica. one of the recipients of those old emails, his old friend, debra taichrob. i received several of them. i received six altogether, but in runs of three. the exact same message? hi there, i ve met a wonderful girl named jen. i m going to costa rica and i will keep in touch and call you when i get back after the holidays. johnny. almost formal, and away, suddenly like somebody you didn t really know was sending you an email. absolutely, and i was like that s really odd, it doesn t sound like john. it was odd, and even more so when another friend of altinger s received exactly the same message word for word and altinger s facebook status change from single to in a relationship. i think it was the following day, i was on msn messenger and johnny popped on mine, so i thought oh, he must not have left on his vacation yet, and it said johnny, his name, and then in quotations beside his name, who says i ve got a one- way ticket to heaven and i m never coming back. later that same day, debra got a call from the same friend who told her john altinger seems to be missing. it s surreal, you know. you don t expect your friends to go missing. soon, altinger s friends got together, unsure of what to do, really but before going to police, they decided to try to get into his condo, to see if they could find a clue what happened to get the guy in the break-in, actually. everything looked fine. nothing out of place, no sign of any struggle. the only things missing were his wallet, his keys and his red mazda coop, so it was as if he had gone out for a drive and could be back any minute. there were no answers to anything, like he just vanished out of thin air. except for those strange emails he had supposedly sent about falling in love and coaster rica, which to the cops, said clark, seemed perfectly reasonable. not hard to imagine that a lovestruck man might want to leave the snow and ice of edmonton behind and skip off to the tropics. the sky send these emails to his friends and we are going well, that strange, but maybe he did go to costa rica. stranger things have happened. you never know. that is how clark felt before he stepped through the looking glass. coming up, detective clark is about to follow john altinger s trail into a strange place of make-believe , and up-and- coming directors makeshift movie studio. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. as soon as they called me on the phone, i got this weird chill. when dateline continues. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn t be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don t take wegovy® if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i m losing weight, i m keeping it off. and i m lowering my cv risk. that s the power of we. check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief. new advil targeted relief. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. condominium, as you can see, looked like anything because breathing should be beautiful, but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes, could be back anytime. where was he? johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him. so, day after day, they prodded the police; john altinger s condominium looked like anything but a crime scene. there were no signs of a struggle, no blood. it was like he just stepped out for a few minutes and could be back anytime. where was he? and johnny s friends were convinced something awful had happened to him, so day after day, they prodded the police and finally, seven days after johnny went missing, the cops agreed to open an investigation. we just started with the basics. i said with got to start out by finding out if we can find him first so let s find the car. since john altinger s email said he had taken off for costa rica, officers went to the airport to look for that red mazda. they searched every parking lot. it wasn t here. they come through airline passenger lists. he was not on any of them. johnny s friends, meanwhile, went back to the apartment for another look and found, stashed away among his important papers, his passport. they re going oh, not getting out of the country without your passport. seemed like he had to be within driving distance but what direction where? just as the police were contemplating that puzzle, one of altinger s friends came up with another email. this one, johnny had received from a woman he met online. janet was her name, the same woman with whom he had supposedly scampered off to costa rica. they had a date and were going out on the town the night he disappeared and because he had never been to her place, she sent him an email with directions on how to pick her up and out of an abundance of caution, he sent a copy of that email to a friend of his, just in case. i can t remember the last word of the email but he says if anything happens to me, you know where i m at, and you know, laugh out loud. it wasn t a phone number or an address, but there were detailed directions to her place, so the cops drove the root, and the directions led them to this neighborhood down this alley, and to this garage rented by a guy named mark twitchell. he happened to be, in the local arts community, local celebrity. he was making a name for himself in edmonton. he had recently made a low- budget sci-fi movie so they called him up, of course, and he readily agreed to come down and open the place up. when he got here, big surprise, someone had changed the lock. he could not get in, so with permission, officers broken, had a quick look around, and found nothing. just the same, with the changed walk in the weird coincidence of the email, there were things to figure out and mark twitchell was only too happy to tag along to the police station to help out however he could. the first thing i noticed is the padlock did not look familiar to me. twitchell explained he d been using the rented garage is a soundstage most recently for what they call a teaser, a short film designed to drum up publicity , buzz, with any luck, attract enough investor money to allow him to produce a full length feature movie. it s a suspense thriller, actually. a short film. okay, so yeah, suspense thriller? of course, he had a crew in and out of the place during filming, said mark. maybe one of them was up to something but it seemed unlikely, and none of them had ever asked to borrow the set for anything. so, if there was anything like that, if somebody needed to borrow the place or whatever, then they would let me know. they d let you know. they would ask, or something like that, so no, i don t know anything about that. anyway, he said, he had moved on for now to another project. i m working on a comedy right now which is actually a full feature, with a decent budget in the neighborhood of about 3 1/2 million. in the meantime, the garage comes studio was empty, so why would someone break into the place and then change the lock, he wondered. didn t make sense. i had a padlock previously but it wasn t the same one. it was silver on the outside with a black plastic dial in the center and this one was just all metal, so. so, you notice the different padlock on the door. mystifying, said mark. he had a bad feeling about this. a man disappears after telling police he was going to the very place his movie had been shooting. as soon as they called me on the phone, i get this weird chill. what about that woman john altinger had been flirting with online, the one who gave him directions to the garage, told him she would meet him there. the woman who signed her emails jen . does the name, jen, mean anything to you? no. we don t have a jen or anything like that. so, the name jen doesn t mean anything to you? you don t know an actress named jen? so, who was this mystery woman, jen? why in the world which she arranged to meet john altinger here in the very back yard garage and independent edmonton film crew was renting for use as a studio. how odd. especially since the movies producer director, mark twitchell, expressed exactly the same confusion as the police. he didn t get it, either. the dots did not connect. mark twitchell did not know johnny from adam and besides, there was no indication johnny ever made it to the garage at all. the close friends are the ones who have come to the police and they have nothing other than his emails. there was one thing, though, and it came from mark twitchell. he wondered if maybe somebody was being set up. it just doesn t sit right, so the first thing i started asking myself is, who all knows about what we do there and what our schedule looks like and stuff like that. is the disappearance staged somehow? if someone was being fooled, who was it, and why? was all this just some big stunt even a publicity stunt? detective bill clark was thoroughly engaged by now. he had spent a career listening to criminal spender stories. maybe you could figure out if this twitchell guy was trying to play the cops somehow. he pulled the recording of the interview. and i watch an interview, i listen to what the guy says but i m looking at body language, i m looking for signs of deceit. i remember coming out of their going you know, this mark twitchell guy interviewed really well. there were no signs of deception. he is free-flowing with the information. he has answered the questions logically. i don t see any looking away, nervousness, nothing. i see nothing. and then, when police looked into twitchell s production company, they encountered a perfectly legitimate company. more than that, actually. this was a promising effort to help edmonton get some national attention as a potential center of moviemaking. mark twitchell was very good at coming up attention and money from local investors. he was a very sharp, bright, young, articulate entrepreneur. exactly the kind of individual most of us are looking for. so, he checked out. hard-working local boy in the city of hard-working people. good parents, nice young wife, sweet little daughter, on his way to becoming a celebrity here in edmonton. detectives even got a look at the teaser film for twitchell s next projects, three and half million dollar buddy comedy. that is mark in the background playing the role of director even as he was the director, sort of a hall of mirrors type story, a movie about a movie about making a movie or something. fantasy and reality all mixed up somehow. just to cover the bases, police interviewed mark twitchell s crew members and they vouched for him completely. mark twitchell came off squeaky clean. his film company was respected, as was he, and bill clark and the edmonton police back at square one by the look of things. coming up, soon, this tough cop would catch a big break. we got a phone call from a detective. the detective says you won t believe it but this guy just told me he found a red mazda out there. the missing man s car turns up when dateline continues. urns up when dateline continues. -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want. -you the man! cologuard is for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. a slow network is no network for business. talk to a healthcare provider that s why more choose comcast business. and now, we re introducing ultimate speed for business our fastest plans yet. we re up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds. at no additional cost. it s ultimate speed for ultimate business. don t miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! bill clark:ok, i m going to get out here. keith morrison: (voiceover) bill clark is, he doesn t mind admitting it, an old school detective, of the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. det. bill clark:you guys here last night? keith morrison: (voiceover) in fact, bill clark is an old-school detective, the sort that seems to exist more on the big screen than the mean streets. in fact, clark is such a throwback, the younger guys on the fourth kid him. they call him simple it s after the old hard-nosed detective on the top show, nypd blue. i still like coming to work every day. it s just part of my life. i still have the drive. i m still excited about it. in his decades on the edmonton police force, clark and scene murder take many forms, had seen the shattering effect it has on the family. you are the one the family depends on and i take that seriously. ultimately, that is in the back of your mind, that if you don t speak for the family or the dead guy, who is going to? for clark, there is no greater satisfaction than bringing in a killer. i consider myself a pitbull. you get a case and you get your teeth into it. we want to get the guy, we want to get this guy and put them away. as for the john altinger case, this wasn t even a murder, at least, not as far as anyone new yet, so clark kept himself on a tight leash . he had yet to smell blood. he must ve come to some point where you thought oh, there is definitely foul play here. no, not at all. all that they had, after all, was a missing man, johnny, who might just have driven off somewhere with her without some mystery woman named jen. certainly that would account for the fact that his red mazda coop was gone, too, but really aside from a few curious emails that might or might not make any sense, there was not much to go on, so being cops, clark and his colleagues employed standard procedure. they double back for a second look at things, like the garage johnny was apparently headed for when he vanished. we are thinking our next step logically as the garage. so, they applied for a search warrant and it was rejected. it gets turned down because we are told we have not proven there was a crime committed. so, the next step seemed simple enough. clark went to mark twitchell directly to see if he would give permission to search the garage. he goes yeah. i says i ll need you to sign a consent form. he goes no problem. they requisitioned the form, one of the detectives drove it over to mark s place to get a signature and then, the weirdest thing. i get a phone call from the detective. the detective says to me he says you won t believe it, but the guy just told me he bought a red mazda. a red mazda and didn t john altinger drive a red mazda and was in it missing? mark twitchell had not said anything about a red mazda when he came down to the police station and spoke to the detective the night before. he said he forgot. really? why would he forget i like that ? you don t want to get tunnel vision. i for homicide investigation, don t get tunnel vision so keep an open mind so i pull myself back. there is something fishy going on. clark invited twitchell to come back down to the station for a meeting at 10:30 on sunday night, and twitchell agreed. everything you do now, we are analyzing. we caught the up arrow down our scenario. the burial and up arrow for marcuse cooperative. the missing car, big down arrow. but, that s about all clark had to work with. we are just here trying to find this john fellow, john altinger. i don t know what s happened to johnny. because, once again, as the interview proceeds, the young filmmaker is the very picture of cooperation. he volunteers information, answers questions without hesitation or guile. his demeanor is expensive. even an untrained eye can see twitchell s body language is open, comfortable, and control. so, they get to the story about the red monster. he was approached, he said, a few blocks from his rented garage by an agitated man. it was the night johnny disappeared. the man seemed desperate to get rid of his car, said mark. he offered to sell it for practically nothing. he goes well, i shacked up with this really rich lady, you know, it s like a sugar mama kind of situation and she s going to take care of me and she s going to buy me a new car will we get back from a vacation regular take. and i and okay, is there like cocaine in the truck? i m trying to figure out what the catch is here. apparently, said mark, there was no catch, and nothing wrong with the car except that it had a standard transmission, which he didn t know how to drive, so he left it parked in a friend s driveway. does he live close by? yes, a couple of blocks away. is it finally a break? the detective monitoring the interview sent a patrol car to check it out and sure enough, there it was, empty, by the look of it. nothing untoward about the car. johnny is not in the car. meanwhile, bill clark left the interview room partly to regroup, but also to see how mark would act when they left him alone, and if he was rattled, he certainly didn t show it. here, he calmly placed a call to his wife. well, i tried to answer some more questions and fill them in and everything like that and it turns out that the car is, in fact, belonging to this missing guy and that it s a huge deal. that s what this whole thing is about. what in heavens name was going on? bill clark still did not have a clue. but he might in a minute, because bill clark good cop was about to become bill clark bad cop. coming up there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. you might be involved, but what was fact and what was fantasy? when dateline continues. when dateline continues. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. israel is saying they rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza. the hostages were kidnapped during the nova music festival october 7th last year. officials meanwhile say more than 200 palestinians were killed in strikes by israel nearby, marking one of the bloodiest single days seen in eight months of war. pro-palestinian protesters descended on the white house to voice their frustration with the president s handling of the israel hamas war so far. for now, back to dateline. almost 4:00 a.m. now, downtown edmonton. filmmaker mark twitchell was sitting in an interview room at the playstation tasking talking to his wife on the phone, fading a little. outside the room, detective bill clark watch twitchell, went over a few notes, prepared to switch tactics. it s already started. the game is on. it s me against him. i know it. he also knew, he was quite sure of it, that all evening, mark twitchell had been handing him a whole load of nonsense and expecting him to believe it but also, all evening, as detective clark listened carefully and contemplated his up arrows and down arrows i agreed with everything he said. this is not the time of the interview to start pushing. it was not the time to start confronting him. that would come later on. because, one of those down arrows led to a particular conclusion. mark twitchell thought clark was a dumb cop. twitchell was trying to play him. while you are reading him during that interview, he had been reading you. no doubt. he probably had made some judgments about your ability as an interviewer. what did he think of you, do you think? i think he didn t think i was that smart. i think he thought he was smarter than me and i believe that he felt that anything he told us, he could concoct to make us believe him. and of course, there is only one proper response to that. i just let him go then taken back through it. question-and-answer, standard procedure, just nail down the details now. now i m starting to see he s not remembering specific details. let s go back to your lunch. you are at lunch. would you go for lunch? don t remember. don t know where you want for lunch? no. so now, it was early morning. they had been at it for hours. they had taken a break and let mark twitchell sit by himself and perhaps stew a bit and now had time for clark to play a different role. we done the good cop routine. now my forte, the bad cop is coming in. this is what i like. this is what i relish. there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are involved in the disappearance of john altinger. no doubt in my mind at all. i? now i m going to start hammering him with what i know. the problem is, i know very little. but, now that was perfectly clear to mark twitchell that he was a suspect in the disappearance and maybe a murder, his easy camaraderie seemed to shrivel. his eyes glazed with something that looked like fear . was he truly innocent? or, was something else going on, something more in keeping with his role as a storyteller? why can t you give me the version of events that night? has i m scared. as the night dragged on, twitchell doubled something about reality seeming more like some sort of fantasy. but, in the face of all of detectives clark s accusations, mark twitchell never wavered. for nearly four hours, he answered clark s questions always polite, apparently helpful, did not as much as ask for a lawyer. a by the end of the night? i got nothing. my gut instinct at that time is that the sky is involved up to his neck in this but what exactly he s done, i don t know yet, but i m going to find out. finally, at daybreak, mark twitchell let clark know he d had enough. in my being charged? not yet. am i free to go? yes. and i will. okay. and then, as bill clark escorted mark twitchell out of the building and into the early morning dark, he ups the ante a little, told twitchell he was seizing his car . then he goes he almost stopped and pulled back and he goes well, i need to get something out of it and i says you re getting nothing. i m taking that car. and, it was then, as clark approached twitchell s car to take it to the impound yard, that he noticed mark s unusual license plate personalized dark jedi. coming up. i have never in my life felt fear like that. police find witnesses who saw something that seemed like a horror movie. it s like every nightmare you had as a child after watching a scary movie, every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden it s right here. when dateline continues. here. when dateline continues. is no exception. it s time you had a proven choice to help restore what s yours. opzelura is the first and only fda-approved prescription treatment for nonsegmental vitiligo. proven to help repigment skin over time. restoring what s yours. it s possible with a steroid-free cream that you can apply yourself. opzelura can lower your ability to fight infections including tb or hepatitis b or c. serious lung infections, skin cancer, blood clots, and low blood cell counts occurred with opzelura. in people taking jak inhibitors, serious infections, increased risk of death, lymphoma, other cancers, and major cardiovascular events have occurred. the most common side effects were acne and itching where applied. repigmentation is possible. ask your dermatologist today about starting or refilling opzelura. pursue it. you re the one that i want nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,. you re the one that i want .the monthly one-and-done you want. everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it s a great product. it s going to help a lot of patients. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions. like what is your glucose and can you have more carbs? before you decide with the freestyle libre 3 system know your glucose and where it s heading no fingersticks needed. now the world s smallest and thinnest sensor sends your glucose levels directly to your smartphone. manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. the #1 cgm prescribed in the u.s. try it for free at freestylelibre.us stay ahead of your moderate-to-severe eczema. and show off clearer skin and less itch with dupixent, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists and allergists, that helps heal your skin from within. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don t change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. keith morrison: edmonton homicide detective bill clark, ask your eczema specialist along with other members of the edmonton police service, felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. their missing man, johnny altinger, had vanished without a trace. and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer, a storyteller, who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his manners intact, even though, by this time, clark couldn t edmonton homicide detective bill clark along with other members of the edmonton police service felt a little like alice in the rabbit hole. they re missing man, john altinger, had vanished without a trace and there were whispers his disappearance could be part of some publicity stunt. their only suspect was an aspiring movie producer storyteller who stood up to a bill clark grilling with his man is intact even though by this time, clark could not shake the gut feeling that this movie director was one very bad day. i was thinking he had filmed whatever he did done to johnny. i was thinking he had killed him and filmed the murder. so, as police looked through twitchell s car and home, they had the idea they might find videotape of her murder. instead, what they discovered was an affair. twitchell had a girlfriend and when his wife found out about that, she kicked him out. but, twitchell seemed, at least to the outside world, unperturbed and instead of falling apart, he simply retreated to his childhood home and moved in with his parents and so, clark paid twitchell s dad and mom a visit. they just struck me as a parent for her son does nothing wrong where s the father wanted to hear what i had to say, and he listened but he got over it. they set up a surveillance team, 24 hour watch to keep an eye on the house and twitchell, but his behavior was anything but suspicious. he went on about his business, took meetings with investors about his movie project, even picked up a $35,000 check from his financial backer. the mark twitchell i was dealing with was articulate, in control, running his project the way you would expect any entrepreneur to be running his project. in detective clark s world of up arrows and down arrows there was one more huge up arrow in twitchell s favor. motive, or that is to say the lack of one. there was no earthly reason for twitchell to kill altinger. there was no love triangle, no rivalry, there was no robbery and to put it more simply, twitchell was not a criminal. did not have a record, had never even been arrested. why would a young, married father killed a perfect stranger? so, besides twitchell, police also focus their attention on this quiet suburban neighborhood around twitchell s rented garage studio where john altinger may have gone to see a woman he met online. they went door-to-door , had anyone seen john altinger or his car or anything suspicious? they found this couple who told a story that seemed almost lifted from a horror movie. i have never in my life felt fear like that. these two, their names are marissa and trevor, were out for an evening stroll when they stepped through the looking glass. it happened when a young man came stumbling out of this alley and collapsed in front of them. he was on the ground and it was just an instant bad feeling. he looked up and said i m being robbed. can you help me? then, as if on cue, another man. in pursuit. as i looked up the attacker almost ran into me. the attacker was wearing a dark, hooded sweatshirt and a hockey mask. it s like every nightmare you have as a child after watching a scary movie. every nightmare you ve ever had. all of a sudden, it s right here. this was no bewitching hour. it was 7:30, and early autumn sun had just begun to take on the glow of a long, northern evening. neighborhood kids were still struggling home from soccer practice. is it believable to you? yes and no, because the way that he fell, to me, looked staged. to get us to stop so they could grab us. yeah, we thought it was a set up for us. so, you did not know whether he was going to assault you or whether he was running from that guy for real. exactly. then, so trevor and marissa, the masked man retreated into the alley to this garage. that is where he stood. he stood there like he was protecting something. i was like, i m getting out of here right now. trevor and marissa left the man on the ground pleading for help like some seasoned method actor and left. when i got home, they called the police, so squad cars prowled the streets as the autumn wind light angled toward the horizon but in that quiet, nothing seemed out of place. nothing amiss. that was that until weeks later when police came back here looking for john altinger . was the guy in the alley actually johnny, not an actor, was he a real victim? one of the detectives went downtown to check on the report taken from trevor and marissa, and it didn t fit. that call was taken a week before johnny disappeared. besides, no victim ever came forward. no one claimed to have been attacked by a masked man. the whole thing sounded almost like , well, like a scene from the movie. coming up, or just maybe, a tv show about a serial killer. what attracted you to director? what i loved about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside, rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserves it in a way. and dateline continues. y. and dateline continues. but this is my story. 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(dad) we never thought that with verizon, saving on the the best in entertainment was gonna be so easy before. we had to pretend we had seen all these shows. now that we have verizon, we can stop pretending. (vo) disney+, hulu, espn+, netflix and max. all for just $20/mo. only on verizon. her uncle s unhappy. (mom) my turn. i m sensing an underlying issue. it s t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. to light under the northern sun, especially with the aid of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on movie maker mark strange things come to light under the northern son, especially with the head of a search warrant. as bill clark and his colleagues closed in on moviemaker mark twitchell, they seized his office computer, found in his house, and on the computer s hard drive, they found this video that looked almost like a movie. a horror movie. no, it was not a snuff film, was not john altinger s murder caught on tape. it was raw footage of one of twitchell s tease films, the one he had told the detective about the first time he d talked to him. it s a suspense thriller, actually. it s a short film. house of cards is what twitchell was calling it. get enough people talking about this and he might persuade some investor to ante up the money for a feature-length film. in house of cards, killer poses online as a flirtatious woman to entrap her victim. in this scene, it is a philandering husband who tells his wife he s heading off to the gym. but, once he arrives at the rendezvous site, the victim is dropped with a stun baton. murdered, then cut up into little bits. imagine a cross between friday the 13th and dexter. the victim in this teaser version was played by edmonton comedian, chris hayward. so, police decided to have a little chat with mr. hayward, but when they showed up at his door, hayward, no slouch when it came to the entertainment business, thought it was a prank of some sort. i worked on reality television. it was one of the first things i got into television on. they throw you curveballs and they have writers and i didn t know. i thought somebody s making this up. this can t be true. this is not a real story. police also tracked down toronto actor robert barnsley who played the starring role of the deranged mass murderer. i was thinking great sure and fill out the short film. i like the idea of this. of course i want to try to be the killer. he seemed like a very normal guy trying to do a film. very nice, very pleasant. playing a serial killer was almost too much fun, said barnsley. it got kind of scary for i enjoyed it too much. you got to be a sadist big- time. absolutely. very fun for me to play. i rather enjoyed doing it. i was thinking my to myself, that i just think i could do this and make it believable? which, said barnsley, was exactly what director twitchell seemed to want. there s a point where i had to stab the dummy through the chest with a samurai sword and he was sitting behind the chair he d be leaning in and say okay listen, when you re turning the blade, grit your teeth and really show that you re enjoying it. wait a minute, was this all about enjoying some fantasy game, pretending to be evil? detectives surfed around twitchell s computer account and discovered a facebook relationship that was all about pretending. at about the time he started filming house of cards, twitchell befriended an animal trainer and aspiring filmmaker, a woman named renee wary. and edmonton detective flew all the way to cleveland to question her, where she, right up front about it, told him about clicking on an intriguing facebook profile, dexter morgan. there was a picture of michael c hall, the actor who portrays dexter morgan on showtime. did you think you are friending the actor himself? sure, you know. what attracted you to dexter? what i love about the show in the books is how he was able to explore that darkside and rationalize that it s okay to kill somebody because this person deserved it, in a way. we flirted back and forth and i kept asking him who are you really, tell me who you are because i want to see the man behind the mask. finally, rene s facebook friend relented. no, he was not actor michael c hall, he admitted. his name was mark twitchell. once he told me who he was, i checked them out, you know. i did a lot of research online and found out that he was legitimate and he was up-and- coming. for rene, the would-be filmmaker, this seemed like her big break. he expressed interest in me and my writing styles and my ideas. what did he like about your writing style? you never said specifically. he just said i think we have, you know, like chemistry together and how we would be able to work very well together , and that we thought a lot alike. this had to be pretty exciting. yes. soon, she was intoxicated by this online collaboration and then wonder of wonders, he offered her work on his next project, the feature-length version of his short film, a film, he told her, about a serial killer. we had talked about our hypotheticals about how to kill somebody and get away with it. he told me well, you do it like dexter because dexter shows you how to do it all the time. dark? yes, but all in fun, of course, like twitchell s playful advice on eliminating, and dexter -like fashion, one of rene s rival in romance. with both her hands wrapped in duct tape, free one arm and slit the wrist. a hunters game processing kit comes with everything you need to cut the body into nice, manageable pieces. disturbing? yes but remember, all pretense. but then, a couple of weeks later, and this is what she told the police, something happened, strange and unsettling. there was a weekend-long pause in their play talk about dexter the darkside. not a single email from her friend, mark twitchell. then, when they came in with it, an apology that also had something else keeping me busy, he wrote. i m really concerned about telling anyone because of the implications. suffice it to say i crossed the line on friday. and, i liked it. crossed the line? what did that mean? coming up. was this all part of an elaborate hoax? a staged fantasy were something truly terrifying, when dateline continues. truly terrifying, when dateline continues. 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon what causes a curve down there? who can treat this? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie s disease, or pd. you re not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. keith morrison: (voiceover) it was choose acid prevention. halloween in edmonton, canada. halloween, a highlight in most any child s fantasy calendar, the night to be the terrible creature she it was halloween and edmonton, canada. i highlight almost any child s fennessey calendar, the night the terrible creature could never really be. mark twitchell loved halloween. spent weeks, months actually, stitching together getups, outlandish costumes. in 2008, weeks after his wife kicked him out and cops began tailing him everywhere, he decided to be ironman. built the costume in his parents garage. but, on the very witchy afternoon, hours from his planned grand entrance to a gala halloween party, as he was walking to a local coffee house to meet with potential movie investors, he was thrown to the ground by men wearing their own unique costumes. members of the s.w.a.t. team. mark twitchell was handcuffed and charged with the murder of johnny altinger. that made big headlines. police even held a press conference to announce the arrest. the reporters who had gathered were left with one juicy tidbit. we have a lot of information that he idolizes dexter. we went to his facebook page. steve was a crime reporter for the edmonton journal. he had a post that said mark twitchell is too much in common with dexter morgan and the idea that there s a man out there who is attacking strangers, innocent victims, it s almost myth. something built up by hollywood. it didn t seem like it could be real. in edmonton, the question began to circulate. had the cops been played by a clever promoter? mark twitchell is known as a prankster. people thought it was a hoax. you almost wonder whether or not he was doing it as a publicity stunt. exactly. so maybe, bill clark and the rest of the police force would wind up with red faces and not just from the cold. except, there was one little bit of news police did not announce. when they searched twitchell s car, they found a laptop and on the hard drive at that laptop, very smart detective found a deleted temporary file. a document about 40 pages long. could be described as a diary, maybe a far-fetched novel right treatment for a dexter episode. it was called sk confessions. it was a first person account written from the perspective and aspiring serial killer. i remember reading this the first day when they brought it down and i said holy mackerel, this tells us everything. except he s a professional storyteller who tells, you know, movies. they are not real. weren t you afraid you might be about to be drawn into a rabbit hole? something that might be true or not be true, it might be f&s e- absolutely. we had huge discussions about this. it read more like a work of fiction. like a story that could not possibly be true. it seems like a hoax right from the opening paragraph. this is the story of my progression into becoming a serial killer. i don t remember the exact place and time it was i decided to be a serial killer, but i remember the sensation that hit me. it was a rush of pure euphoria. there was something about exploring my dark side the greatly appealed to me. the author seemed inspired by the tv show dexter. i m a huge fan of the showtime series dexter, as you may have guessed, if you re at all familiar with the show. and a particular scene played an important role. i watched an episode of dexter where the flashback showed his father showing dexter a scan of the human brain. he identify the difference between a serial killer sprain in a normal person s brain. i was convinced that what i was was my own decision, my own path, but now i truly wondered if i had little choice at all. of genetics play a bigger role than i thought. i knew i was a psychopath further than he sociopaths because i had the perfect upbringing and no history of abuse, violence, or trauma. in sk professions, it s graphic. how the killer dispatches victims with a mental mental pipe. i thrusted in his gut. his reaction was pure hollywood. the lurch forward with the grant was dead on tv movie of the week. the little i knew at the time and the things i found, thought it was true. cops can have hunches and think what they want, but this hunches really hold up in court. sk confessions could be a make- believe story, might not be written by twitchell. it could ve been downloaded from the internet . investigators started going through sk confessions line by line, to see if they could sort out fact from fiction. and, indeed, police found details that lined up with reality. the writer in his first person account tells the reader how he used a processing kit to dismember the victim s body and police found a processing kit in twitchell s garage. the killers said he tried to burn the victim s body in an oil drum and his parents backyard. at twitchell s parents backyard, they found a burned ring on the back lawn. there was a detail about the killer getting a speeding ticket and so did twitchell about the time that johnny altinger disappeared. he joked about it about how this dumb cop didn t realize he had just killed a guy. he was now going out to celebrate and have sex with his girlfriend. the cop remembered up. it came back and we know the conversation. it was basically word for word that story told us. exactly what the sheriff told us. there was a key part of the story that could not be verified. a passage that goes on for pages about an earlier attack, but that victim got away. that part of the story read like that directly from the house of cards grip where the victim is tasered by man wearing a hockey mask and hood. it s a big part to prove it s true or not. it was a huge part. if someone had been attacked that way, you would ve heard of it. exactly. we got nothing. no call. nothing that even matches the similarity. is seem to be one part of the story that didn t make sense. they went public and released a photo of the hockey mask. that what week somebody s memory that that was me. it was a longshot, really. maybe that person did not exist. they put it out there. they waited. not for long. because, that very evening, a lonely casino security officer named gilles tetreault was puttering on his computer and saw the newspaper article online. the police appeal. they felt the blood drain from his face. that person was him. i am like, oh my god. it s the same hockey mask as i saw, that the guy was wearing. i started reading the story. oh, my god, someone got killed. that terrifying evening came crashing back into his head. it was he, gilles tetreault, who so frightened that couple out for a stroll. he picked up the phone and before long found himself in a little room with detective bill clark. in my career, it was probably the most spellbinding interview i ve ever had with a witness. now, you are about to hear that story firsthand. coming up. all of a sudden i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was bigger than me. the horror story really happened. life flash before my eyes. oh, my god. my family will never see me again. again. govy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i m keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i m reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that s proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn 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[coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. ceover) when gilles tetreault joined because breathing should be beautiful, the strange developing horror movie plot up in edmonton, gilles tetreault joined the developing horror movie plot in edmonton, canada. a man with a broken heart. lonely in a new city without the wife who had left him for another life. she just wanted to move on? she fell out of love with me, i guess. that s not easy. when he came across that lovely, intelligent woman on an online dating site and she seemed to like him? well, who could resist. she looked beautiful in her profile. i believe i made the first contact. what did she say about herself? she said she was new in town and looking to meet people. i found it a coincidence. so was i kind of thing. with a view alone and looking to meet someone. i thought this is perfect. sheena was her name. she said how about dinner and a movie. she started making excuses that i couldn t pick her up at her front door. so has stayed asked him to park in an alley and comes right back entrance, through a detached garage. she would leave the garage door open and i would go through the garage to the other side, get into the yard and knock on the back door to pick her up. i didn t have to crawl under it. i just had to squat. hopeful, unsuspecting, he walked through the garage door, the store, that leads to the back patio. i touched the not and all of a sudden somebody attacked me from behind. i turned back to look to see what s going on. that is when, all of a sudden, i see this man wearing this black and gold hockey mask. this guy was much bigger than me. prodding me with a stun gun. at first gilles couldn t tell what it was this stinging at the back of his neck. but listen to this from sk confessions? pressing the baton across the back of his neck, pulled the trigger. shocked and jump but did little more than merely alert him to what was going on. i tried to make a run for it. that s when he pulled out a gun. what is that like when somebody pulls a gun on you? terrified. i didn t know what to do. oh, my god, i think i m going to die and i cannot get away. there is no way i can escape a bullet. i felt a sick feeling. i pointed it at him and all of a sudden he took me seriously. his eyes wide. then he yells, get down on the ground. put your face down and close your eyes and put your hands in the back. he took out duct tape. he ripped off a piece. that s when he covered my eyes with them. just about then, gilles tetreault decided hits come to the moment of his death. i started tearing up. it was like life flashed before my eyes. it was quite emotional. oh, my god. my family is never going to see me again. i never told anyone where i was going that day. all of a sudden, by my legs, i hear his belt jiggling. what gilles heard was the sound of handcuffs as they neared his wrists. he said he felt the attacker was undoing his belt. i thought, he is going to rape may. i better fight for my life. i would rather die my way than his way. i knew he s going to pull the gun out again. you know what? if it kills me, it kills me. gilles makes his move. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. but this fight is far from over. he comes after me and grabs my legs. he starts dragging me back. me e of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. hi, i m janice and i lost 172 pounds on golo. now clinically proven a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am on the inside. once i saw golo was working i felt this rush. golo really works. norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? he d been lured into a garage then assaulted by a masked man gilles tetreault was in a battle for his life. had been lured into a garage and assaulted by masked man with the gun. now he is determined to turn the tables. get up and rip off the duct tape and i yell at them. i said, i can t do this. i m not going down like this. he started yelling at me. it back down on the ground. back down on the ground. i darted for the gun. grabbed the end and pushed it away from my body. he got back to his feet, having removed the duct tape. when i pointed the gun at him again, he grabbed a. it was the best feeling i felt in my life because i felt plastic when i grabbed it. immediately. who suddenly realized? it was a fake gun. i think i might ve seen a gleam that indicated he felt the gun construction a realized it was not real. i grabbed him by the arms and we re struggling all over the garage. according to sk confessions, by fighting back, had taken the story off script. overestimating the stun baton is a mistake i would not repeat. i should ve just pounded him on the back of the head while he was down until he lay unconscious on the floor. i tried to kick him. he saw me going to do that, so he actually went and swiped my leg and i almost fell down. i almost lost my shoe. i am thinking, i can t get down. if i get down on the ground, you are cooked. exactly. s adrenaline had been pumping and he was unaware how the shock from the stun baton had sapped his strength. my muscles could not move. i was so weak. he goes forward and tries to headbutt meet me. that s when he says, because you did not cooperate, this is the way it has to be. he starts punching me in the head. he stumbled back with every blow, closer and closer to the open garage door. i am letting him punch me. he punches me again. he grabs my jacket so i slipped out of my jacket and ruled under the garage door. i made it out of the garage. i start to try to run. all of a sudden, it s like my legs were paralyzed. i could not move. i fell on my face. a nightmare where you can get away from that monster. i start crawling away on this unpaved driveway. sure enough, he comes underneath the garage after me. grabs my legs and he starts dragging me back. i m thinking, oh, my god, i don t know how i will get away again. i have nothing left. there s nothing else i can do. underneath the door. au he drags me back and throw me back into the garage underneath the door. i m thinking, he does not have a hold of me anymore. this is my chance. i can maybe get away again and i roll underneath the garage door. i got back up, and in my head, i was like, there is no way i am not running this time. terrified. exhausted, gilles tetreault ran 30 or 40 feet to this pedestrian path and that s when he collapsed in front of trevor and marissa. i look up and i see a couple walking their dog. i couldn t really talk. all i could say is there s a man after me. he is trying to mug me, please, help me. they looked stunned. they didn t know what was going on. to me, felt like it was taking the masked man forever to come after me. but he came running after me. he comes close to me and i tell him them, that s the man. as i looked up, the attacker almost ran into me. once he saw the couple, he said, come on, frank. the guy was pretending they were friends. he was pretending he was going to live the mask like we were playing. then he does. he turns around and starts walking back to the garage. i stared back at them through my mask and then headed back for the cover of my layer. it was only once he arrived safe at home that gilles tried to put it together. how? what in the world just happened? who was the man behind the mask? and why had he been attacked? i decided i need to go back onto that online dating website. i want to get as much information as i can so i can give it to police. i go back on and all of a sudden, everything was gone. her profile was gone. although sent and received messages i got from the person were all gone. what is it like to be sitting alone in front of your computer with that realization in your head? it felt almost ashamed. i can t believe i got duped by this woman. i just want to put this behind me. i want to move on. and did not call the police. no, did not. i had no idea. for weeks, i had nightmares. i kept githinking, maybe this g is following me. maybe he s going to attack me again. i was terrified. i was facing him there with a gun. a month after his journey into the twilight zone, gilles tetreault was giving bill clark a videotape blow-by-blow of the assault. there s no doubt he is being truthful. the cops had real evidence that sk confessions was all true. except, it was not quite complete. it was a story without an end. the part we never had, we never had johnny. johnny altinger. the victim who it seemed did not escape from this suburban garage, still no sign of him. unless, just about then the detectives uncovered some of the, updated version of sk confessions. there was one more chapter. in which the killer leaves a clue. impossible to resist. the police take mark twitchell on a journey to the place where something evil had happened. here we are back at the killing garage. killing garage. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. nexgard® plus helps you protect your dog from fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, and more. all in one delicious, monthly, soft chew. use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard® plus: the one you want for one-and-done protection. i still love to surf, snowboard, or neurologic disorders. and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol s extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. i m richard lui. is real saying it rescued four hostages during a raid in gaza who had been kidnapped by hamas during the music festival october 7. officials say more than 200 palestinians were killed by airstrikes nearby. marks one of the bloodiest single days and eight months of war so far. a 3-year-old horse took the victory in the 156 running of the belmont stakes. there was no triple crown champion is over two different winners in the kentucky derby and preakness stakes. loved the tv show dexter, was so taken with the whole idea the would be movie direction or dashed director loved the tv show dexter. so taken with the whole idea that he posted this online ad, attempt to sell the script for his house of cards short film as if it were an original dexter episode. in fact, the story of his computer, the one called sk confessions is a lot like an episode of the tv show. now, here in his rented garage, police found what looked like a kill room. there was plastic sheeting. autopsy table. all matching the careful descriptions in sk confessions. what the killer could not learn from dexter s how to dispose of the body. the tv dexter lives in miami, dumps his victims in the atlantic. but, edmonton in the middle of thousands of square miles of farmland and oilfields has hundreds of miles from the ocean and that fact seem to have stymied the sk controller who up had no idea how to get rid of the remains. perhaps it never occurred to him to put the body in the trunk of a car and drive it past city limits and bury it behind some old abandoned barn. so, according to sk confessions, tried burning them. that did not work. he thought about throwing them in the saskatchewan river there one town but was afraid someone would see him. he finally decided to toss them down one of the thousands of storm drains. the diary had got to a point where he talked about dumping the body in a sewer and then it ended. by this time, clark believed that the diary was true. all of it. without a body in a case as bizarre as this one, how could any jury be sure any important parts of this sk confessions wants some fantasy from the dark side? clark confronted twitchell with the evidence hoping he would confess. this reminds me of dexter. kill room. clean sweep. you were referring to your garages a kill room. your garage was a kill room. the table is the killed table. it s where you carved him up. i will show you that later but all the blood seeps underneath. the dude dna matching. when i say the show dexter, and you ve seen the show. it s all modeled after dexter. you know that. you kind of look like the guy. i look at that picture, i saw the one on your website, you even look the same. he kills people who needs killing. these guys who get off in court. the guys get off on technicality. he kills people who needs killing. the difference here is you killed a guy who really was no harm to society. there was no response at all. the next day clark and another detective took twitchell and drove him around edmonton hoping he would give up information. what was his demeanor like? defiant. assiduous show is where the body is. will show us where johnny is and drove right here. parked in front of his parents house. after that? mark twitchell was taken to a place that was the center of his life. here we are the killing garage. the dexter garage. look familiar? we parked on top of the sewer where you d dumped the body? jog your memory. clark even took twitchell to the back of the garage, the suspect a crime scene, hoping it would trigger some level of remorse. bring back any memories? want to tell us where the body is? get this over with? okay. back in the car, another detective heard of camera starts working on twitchell. you humiliate your victim. knocked him over the head. carve him up. chop him up. this pales in comparison. twitchell said nothing, at least not in person. he had said plenty in sk confessions, if he was the author. the document was incomplete, ending in a jumble of unrecoverable computer code. com hon, we are to the point where he dumped the body and we don t know the location. a detective did a slow, methodical search through the desktop computer found in twitchell s home, and it paid up. on the computer, once deleted but now found was yet another version of sk confessions with a view tantalizing paragraphs describing the location of the victim s remains. he talks about a specific sewer. how it s off an alley in a grassy area, and an old neighborhood. he talks about telephone poles in the alley. only certain neighborhoods here have telephone poles. the older ones. that s about the time bill clark became a man obsessed. we were pulling manhole covers up. i d be with a flashlight and looking down. we would call the city crews in. nothing. enough to make a person doubt his sanity. coming up. police were about to get some help. a man that open the case. they stopped right here. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? 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after 1.5 years, call from the city jail, and meet wanted to talk to detectives. his name, mark twitchell. he handed over a print out of this google map. at the bottom of the page there was a handwritten note. location of johnny altinger s remains. it was one block south of his parents house and that alley. this is the alley behind the home. it matched perfectly with the description from sk confessions, and in fact, this area had been searched by police a year and a half earlier. they pulled all these sewers all the covers? all the covers. they searched each one and they found nothing. this block, this area, and they sent cameras down the lines where they go down the lines and sneak them down and found nothing. where do they stop? about where you and i are standing. a year and a half later, where did you find the body? right down there. five telephone poles down half a block from where we stopped the search. this was johnny altinger s tomb. there is a piece of trash he probably thought it would get washed away. deteriorate to a point where it would be unidentifiable or no one would look. no one would ever look. why weeks before his murder trial was set to begin did mark twitchell give up johnny altinger s body? there must ve been a reason. because of all the publicity the case generated, the judge slapped a gag order on the press, the police, everybody. which is one the first day of the trial, the disclosure that altinger s body had been uncovered catches everyone by surprise. the reporter is written a book about the case. it doesn t get more explosive than that. it was new information no one had heard before. the trial only got more bizarre is the prosecution unveiled for the first time sk confessions. sitting in the courtroom became a journey deep into the wilderness of a mind of darkness. horde details were written down. no detail was not told within this document. it sounds just like it is fiction, like a script, but when you step back you realize it s a real person. it is a real man who has been murdered. was johnny altinger murder? twitchell admitted he dumped the remains down the storm drain, he never said he murdered him. never admitted he was the author of sk confessions. detectives knew they would need more than this document to get a conviction. the quietly build a case on csi basics. take the garage. this is what it looked like during the normal light of day. and this is a photo taken from the same angle minutes later once the floor was sprayed with luminal, the chemical that makes blood glow. huge spots in the garage would indicate pooling of blood. we found a piece of a human tooth in the garage. we found blood spatter along the walls and the garage door. hundreds of spots where repeating had taken place. also? csi investigators found this gang processing kit. hunters would take it to cut up a moose or whatever they have killed. this is what he used and every single tool in the kit had our victim s dna on it. in his car, police found other hard evidence. we find a knife and there. a knife with blood. visible blood? visible blood and it matches johnny altinger. he left it in the car? and the car is a gold mine . it absolutely blows the case wide open. there are yellow sticky notes on the console. one has a map drawn from the garage to johnny altinger s apartment. he kept everything. wrote everything down. after the presentation of the hard evidence, his coworkers were called to testify. one of the first was the actor who played the victim in house of cards. on his way to court that morning, he worried. what would happen if twitchell is acquitted? i feel he would probably kill me. chris was not alone. rene was unsettled too the day she testified but for another reason altogether. i didn t want to feel judge. because? i have dark thoughts and i shared them with a serial killer. johnny altinger s friend testified. there was nervousness, for sure. and a lot of sadness that day for me. all i can do is speak for john and the person he was. a nice man. definitely. if things had not turned out the way it did, he would ve found what he was looking for in life. it was the first time she had gotten a clear look at mark twitchell . he seemed like a normal, average person off the street. that is what disturbed me. twitchell remained stonefaced even when his wife took the stand. she is crying through all of this. mark twitchell s reaction was nearly blank. when this video was shown a chord during bill clark s testimony, twitchell became unraveled. he starts to cry and tears are streaming down his face. he is getting hysterical. the judge recognized and they took a break. when it comes back after the break, mark twitchell is no better. still very upset and he is crying. he actually faces detective clark and he starts talking to him. he said i am sorry for lying to you. this is extraordinary. you never have the accused talking to one of the primary investigators in the middle of their murder trial. this was far from the strangest moment of the trial. that came in the case for the defense when the attorney called it one witness. mark twitchell. the room was packed. i think everyone was on the edge of their seat wondering what does this guy going to say? twitchell finally had an audience. when he had been waiting 2.5 years to tell. what a story it was. he said you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that everyone would be fooled. fooled. [coughing] copd isn t pretty. i m out of breath, and often out of the picture. but this is my story. ( ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won t replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. what a wonderful world [laughing] ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful, all day and night. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. hi, i m kevin and i ve lost 152 pounds on golo. because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. i decided to give golo a try. taking the release supplement i noticed a change within the first week and each month the weight just kept coming off. with golo you can keep the weight off. keith morrison: (voiceover) in mark twitchell s trial, the defense had but one witness, twitchell himself. and right from the start, he admitted in mark twitchell, they had one witness. right from the start, he admitted killing johnny altinger . then, he told the jury a story. he said what he has done is cooked up this idea that you could blend fiction and reality so closely together that the people, everyone would be fooled into thinking what is fiction is actually reality. house of cards and sk confessions said twitchell worded very the building blocks to a entertain the concept of book and film. there was more. more twisted reality. to generate publicity, he said he first needed to create an online urban legend by doing a series of harmless staged attacks identical s to those depicted in this movie and novel. so when his movie comes out and when the novel comes out, people would googled this and find out there s this urban legend that maybe the movie is real. maybe fiction is reality. he called a? multi-angle psychosis/psychosis label entertainment. sitting on the beach and there s a palm tree and a beach in front of you but when you pull back, it s not a beach but a picture of a beach. the attack on geo tetra was just a stunt. he allowed his parade to escape. and johnny altinger? that was week too just like the first one. but johnny didn t get the joke and furious there was no woman to greet him, tap twitchell with a pipe. he s got this knife on his belt and he tells the jury in his testimony that he puts his hand on the handle of the knife and just as johnny is about to come at him, his lifting the pipe over his head and mark twitchell sticks his hands out in front of him and the next thing he sees is the knife in johnny s stomach and blood is on his hands and he collapses on the floor and dies. the only inaccuracy is the initial attacker was johnny altinger and he , mark twitchell, disposed of the body and the sewer. police have their answer as to why twitchell gave up the body. it was the prologue of his elaborate tail. his defense is a brilliant idea on the surface. he actually found a way to describe an entire police investigation that incriminated him to get him off scott free. in ohio, rene was following all of this online. i watched the live blog they had, and i was screaming my head off at home. you liar. were you afraid the jury would believe him? oh, yeah. you are looking at for the one person that has that doubt. take the doubt back to the deliberation room. gilles tetreault was in course dash cart the day it was completed. i got to sit in the second row. she looked back, my mom, and saw me. i didn t know how she would feel. she turned around and looked at me. she smiled. she grabbed my hand. she said i m so happy you are still with us. that meant so much to me. what was that like? i didn t know how she would feel toward me. when she did that, it was almost another closing moment for me. not for others in the courtroom. apparently not for the jury s deliberations dragged on. the time rolled on. people are thinking maybe there is someone out there who actually does believe mark twitchell. mark twitchell was a masterful liar, maybe this ultimate fantasy would beguile the jury. then that final audience trooped back into the courtroom and gave him his last review. they found him guilty of the premeditated first-degree murder of johnny altinger . he was sentenced to life in prison. i have never been involved in an investigation in my whole career. you theorizes someone has died. there is no doubt we don t always get it right. here we knew exactly what happened to johnny. because he told you. he told us. ultimately, johnny lettuce to a . and twitchell kept writing about it. he would ve kept writing dash cart killing. i did mark twitchell murder johnny altinger? was it a thrill killing? or something even darker? i think he wanted to experience the feeling of killing and dismembering a body. i think down the road, he was going to produce a film about it . he would be a producer who would tell his cast and crew and actors how to do it and only to himself he would know he has lived it. i think that is what he wanted to do. an ohio, rene, twitchell s friend, arrived at the same disturbing theory. i think he did it for artistic reasons. artistic reasons? i think he wanted to see how someone died so he could make a better story. film it better. write about a better. in fact, mark twitchell himself offered an answer to all the people who wondered why. he was different, he wrote in his sk confessions. he simply could not feel anyone. and so, intentionally or not, he offered a dismal reason for murdering a perfect stranger. it was a single line at the end of that horror movie of his house of cards when the killer tells his wife the best way to succeed is to write what you know. this is this is someone at a park at 3:00 am. i am andrea kncanning and this is dateline. i can t believe she would meet someone at a park at 3:00 a.m. i think she knew the second she got in his car that something was wrong. a college student disappears. i d liketo
you re still at the mercy of what these storms decide to do. autumn kirks: i have a very healthy respect for mother nature and tornadoes and what they can do. it can ruin your entire life. it can destroy everything you know. in 2011, after the joplin tornado, amber munson had lost her house, most of her possessions, and all of her treasured photographs. but months later, a miracle. there was a craigslist post from a stranger over 50 miles away who had found a photograph in their yard. it was a picture sucked up by the tornado. a baby photo of amber. the only one to survive. the woman mailed it back to amber along with $5, all she could afford, but wanted to give to help amber start her life over. and with $5, well, she could afford it, wanted to give to help amber start her life over for more information on what you can do in a tornado and what you can do to help combat the growing climate crisis go to cnn.com violent earth i m liev schreiber. thanks for watching. goodnight the listeners as it were the kgb, who had pulled the surveillance equipment lived on the floor above us. and in moscow and you knew they were then on the whole ones just intuitive i mean, i remember my wife and i had some kind of argument about where we could take the children for a weekend picnic in another and manly were, hey, i addressed the silina said, well, you up there, which we agree. and to my amazement, within about two or three hours, somebody had slipped in a note under our front door saying, well, you had agreed on costco vogue or cheerios over whatever was erase some some picnic place i felt that was a kgb surveillance who had a good sense of humor actually this is the unseen story of the cold war but not by politicians that by secret agents there was complete misunderstanding on either side. it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust as the soviet union faces off with the west in the early 1980s to spies play a dangerous game from the shadows they seek to win the upper hand while the world stands on the brink of nuclear war these are their stories in their own words testimony piece together from interviews over the years after 11 years of sigurd worth maybe i developed paranoia and never before heard recordings molten five go up adapting mod getter has been in service i understand the two nadh while catch-all that reveal the deadly intrigues at the heart of the battle between east and west look this is a war a secret war meant at tool was a time when people in soviet union s still believe reality of nuclear war confrontation between west and east was very serious sometimes it was not only iron curtains, it was like iron sphere this is a dangerous moment for the soviet union. almost 40 years into the cold war their economy is overstretched. the military entrenched in afghanistan, and support for communism in decline. the soviet leadership led by leonid brezhnev stockpiles nuclear arms in a show of strength against the west but there s a much subtler weapon to secret intelligence yuri andropov is the head of the soviet intelligence service. the kgb kgb have been running the rational life for years under opa was getting more and more convinced of the menacing was he was a full-blown kgb person who thought that it s either us or them. and basically better be your and drop-off concludes that the superpowers are on the verge of a nuclear war and so he begins a process of collecting information there would be indicators of the approach of nuclear war. this running tally of signs is called operation riyadh and every time andropov gets new intelligence, he takes note there was a chart four american said this the breadths said that somebody was caught here and the plane cross that border and i think and then drop up his mind. he was absolutely convinced nuclear confrontation is coming once this chart is full, andropov is convinced the soviet union should strive and so he uses every resource to keep close watch on his adversaries. being a skilled intelligence officer a spike the life was exciting it for thrilling it was romantic i was thrilled by being involved in specific kgb operation. so like a dead letter boxes or leg, or dsk are very high qualification intelligence officer he was born in a family working for kgb. his brother working for kgb i think was a good example of soviet intelligence service so get tenure on august keen to put agent or the rounds of all the kgb never sent abroad unmarried man there was married to my second wife later as we helped to children i wanted to participate some daring operation i wanted to get a broad as soon as possible in 1982, the kgb sends gordy fc to the uk disguising his identity as a soviet diplomat his posting comes at a tense time relations between east and west are at a knife s edge in december of 1979, the soviets had invaded afghanistan. soviet allies in central america. we re making gains nicaragua and we re trying to make gains in el salvador. meanwhile, on africa soviet allies were fighting in angola. and we re making new friends in other parts of sub-saharan africa. this picture seemed to contradict soviet commitment to better relations with the united states why are they behaving this way? if they really want better relations with us? why are they on the march in what was then called the third world? but we now call the global south there s a political standoff, and neither side shows any signs of backing down the cold war was a view of the world where you had a communist, totalitarian empire run out of moscow. and western countries led by the united states, but including western europe and britain, facing off against each other you have the soviet union, which is at this point a i ll minute superpower, nuclear leader, neck and neck with united states in terms of innovation and development but at the core their ideologies as we know, are completely different democracy versus communism what began as an ideological conflict has escalated into a terrifying nuclear arms race. and neither side wants to appear weak the soviet union had something like 33,000 nuclear weapons. we had something like 22,000 way too many and way too scary. the cold war was an existential struggle over the future of world civilization and that s what makes this moment in history so dangerous is you have both sides completely misunderstanding both the power of their adversary and the intentions of their adversaries assignments are going off. the tornado here you cannot it s one you cannot outrun it it really is a terrifying experience. it is a stuff of nightmares. you just hear it and feel it is o brien. i m thinking i m going to die and i thought that was it. along with earth, with liev schreiber tomorrow at nine on cnn imagine a future where plastic is not wasted. but instead remade over and over into the things that keep our food fresher our family safer and our planet cleaner to help us get there. america s plastic makers are investing 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everything the soviet union stands for and he s not alone president reagan s vast limousine has just drawn up here outside the normal porch of income from buckingham palace there s going to be the first time that an american president has addressed both houses of parliament here in westminster run reagan, that maggie thatcher in was amazed that they thought alike right mr. thatcher really did, despite her uptight bearing and her hairdo really loved to be row with or i ll reagan, there s certain magnetism, there s certainly laurie to him and she she felt that tingling i don t want chancellor speaking for all americans. i want to say very much at home we feel in your house ronald reagan said that soviet communism will lie, cheat still to advance its mission around the world. that was the idea that ronald reagan had to delegitimized the soviet union. the decay of the soviet experiment should come as no surprise to us. we see totalitarian forces in the world who seek subversion and conflict around the globe to further their barbarous assault on the human spirit even before he became president ronald reagan said the cold war will end. and i know how it s going to end we win, they lose and he s about to ramp up the rhetoric even further the march of freedom and democracy will leave marxism-leninism on the asieh history. as it has left other trnas, which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people ronald reagan is rallying the troops. is rallying the nato alone, trying to send a signal that the united states should be respected and even fear the america of the 1970s, which was licking its wounds after losing the vietnam war. that s over. we re back, we re strong, and we should be fear making america great again, if you will. we re going to win in the end. we will outlast them people like me, hardliners stopped. that was terrific most of the people in attendance of the speech didn t think it was to serve him think at all why? because he was too radical it did cause a reaction so that speech, it was offensive and was actually offensive to a lot of people. a lot of people i remember saying while the who the hell are you to? to tell us that we are be people who had streaked that fed into the sense in moscow that ron reagan was account boy and he intended to use nuclear weapons against the soviet union in a war that is really thought psychologically, it is think about how dangerous that is closer cooperation between the uk and the us is exactly what andropov fears and in this cold war, andropov looks to his agents for proof what intelligence did in those days where he gave us details of the overall picture we could follow the number of intercontinental ballistic missiles that they had deployed. we could follow the number of new submarines who could follow the number of new tanks you could follow all these things that you could see from the satellite and we could hear about rumblings from poland or texas czechoslovakia hungary, or bulgaria are the unit to russia this is very typical. one of my wife and my arms eating ice cream in the snow i ve cited the bolshoi that s i was head of sas station in moscow in 19, early 1980s, the civil servants old signatures of official secrets act and set what s not in the public domain is rarely not for discussion by bias station and moscow was quite a small one. the whole apparatus of control and surveillance is very sophisticated than they used to paint radioactive paint on the bottom of our cars i know trackers we were thin on the ground, rarely it is extremely hard for outsiders to discover anything significant about the soviet political intentions while british agents seek a foothold in moscow in london, all or gordy ascii joins his fellow spies london was one of the major cities where serwer bianna is going on the kgb quarters and london, it s called station because you get station it s located in the russia membership that london job was extremely advantageous for gerd gsk it means that he was trusted and that he was decent cooperative, and it was good for him at the kgb station in london, there are two agents above gordy ascii in the hierarchy one of them is the kgb station chief are cati good general beep, fat he was not able to speak good english so he could not do anything. he could not write. he only was able to sign guard duty. sql was supposed to spend most of his time nine to five in the embassy doing she s official job being a diplomat and then during the evening on weekends, she became a spy their job was to get british secrets especially sucrose concerning britain s foreign policy gardi ascii is under pressure to send intelligence to moscow that validates operation rayon at the same time, he s had to hide the fact that he is a kgb spy from the british in their eyes, he s just a diplomat if he blows his cover or fails to feed the soviet leadership with good intel, he ll be on the next plane to moscow boards are very good career move for gorgias by the british counter intelligence service by far, phrases considered one of the most professional services in the world i m purchase sure. she knew that wouldn t be a picnic for him the ceo is about to take off. there s no one that goes the things i do we are personnel in what, four wrestling can be we wednesday night dynamited aid on tbs if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer, but up devo plus your voice is the first combination of two immunotherapies for adults, newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer but to spread tests positive for pd-l1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene up devo plus your voice is not chemotherapy. it works differently it helps your immune system fight cancer. and two from ways up, devo and year s way can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment, these problems can be 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could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. doctors preferred better science, better results. i m katelyn polantz at the federal courthouse in washington. and this is cnn close captioning brought to you by guilt visit guilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, it has a design is like your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurry. there ll be gone in a flash. designer sales that up to 70% shop guilty.com today well, i ve got various newspaper cuttings, but also photos with mrs. t log, with actually was uncompromising in her dislike of socialism and communism and that s what drove her. it look so young and innocent. my job was really to make sure that ten downing street worked well for the prime minister maga margaret thatcher knows that it s not just politics that dictates the key moves in the cold war margaret thatcher was fascinated by intelligence part of it was the glamour but also she d liked to collect as much information as possible and intelligence was one of the sources when the government, there was a special box in number ten in which there would have been regular reports of anything which became known about soviets activity in uk mi6 has a very big secret. they re keeping from the prime minister in britain. i was supposed to be just an official civilian official of the soviet state. but zervos, a number of secrets in my life i was a kgb spy, spying against britain but he isn t just a kgb spy pretending to be a soviet diplomat when the telephone call to business intelligence service that s what you hear welcome. orleck, london. we ve been waiting for you i ll let go ascii is a double agent i became secret agent for the british intelligence in the 60s and 70s, gordy fc was based in denmark as a loyal and dependable kgb agent and it s there that he begins to see things in a different light. a turning point for him was that the soviet decision to crush the prague spring and attempted liberalizing the soviet style regime in czechoslovakia in 1968 gardi f ski katz had an internal personal shift he recognizes the inherent repressive snus of the soviet system, which as a kgb officer, he sworn to defend this is an ideological decision for him if this photo government or security services realized that i was spying for britain, i would have been dead it is not betraying. my country, russia i hated the communist system. i wanted to fight against it i simply would have regarded myself as not an honest person. if i wouldn t be fighting against that system there are some things that i really cannot going to i know you ll understand the nature of what we re talking about. when all lag arrived in london in 1982 it was invaluable to have the views of an insider in the russian embassy in london, who use the meaning of everything that was happening only eight people in the country know about this highly sensitive operation at a highly sensitive time it would be very, very few people anywhere you about all you. don t want anybody at any stage. so betrays a source because accidents happen usually things are very, very carefully contained only people who need to know as a great principal to know you have to keep completely tight to a very few people especially extended 9:00 news with michael president brezhnev, ruler of russia for nearly two decades is dead. so the soviet people tonight, five days of mourning begin the leaders who ve grown old in his shadow, the chance of ultimate power who will take over administration officials so there will be no change in us foreign policy toward the soviets until there is a change in soviet policy the soviet union finds reagan s aggressive tone not just insulting but an existential threat right now, the last thing the communist party wants is to be seen as weak so it decides to promote someone with a very clear agenda one adviser, calm front lawn or yuri andropov, a hard line man who would be we ve talked to deal with hey, mom, how many should i decorated? have ran have blue. that s a really tough call for you. that s john king from cnn. let s look at the data your county leaned red eye 15 points in the last presidential election however looking at the latest polling, you re going to need a lot of those purple sprinkles how this guy really knows his stuff $5 a cupcake, you know, the average cost of a cupcake around here is $3 no comment i m getting vaccinated and pfizer s pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine because i m at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia already gotten pneumonia vaccine. but i m asking about the added protection of krever, not 20. if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, prevnar 20 is approved in adults to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that caused me cockle pneumonia in just one dose, don t get prevnar 20. if you ve had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects for pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue headache, and joint pain. i want to be able to keep my plans. i don t want to risk ending up in the hospital with pneumococcal pneumonia. that s why i chose prevnar to ask your doctor or pharmacist? about the pfizer vaccine for pneumococcal pneumonia new group does assignments get my bag like a bunch of groceries, alice cheese and greens, just contemplate freedom. you can take your eyes off the new 2024 jeep wrangler in gladiator jeep, there s only one during the jeep make this the summer event, get 2000 bonus cash allowance plus no monthly payments for 90 days on the 2024 gop-led ear. and most 2024 jeep wrangler gas-powered models yeah, introducing ned s plaque psoriasis. he thinks is flaky red patches are all people see. oh, tesla is the number one prescribed pill to treat blacks psoriasis oh, tesla can help you get clears don t use a tesla if you re allergic to it, serious allergic reactions can happen. oh, tesla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting some people take new tesla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur 242424 new cnn original series new episodes tomorrow would nine just two days after leonard brezhnev death, the head of the kgb hard line or yuri andropov, is promoted to the top job and drop was quite a terrifying man. he came out of the apparatus of control and he event, ran the soviet union as a very controlled environment. the moral vice president bush arrived or also secretary of state show pushes visit is intended as a gesture of conciliation according to western diplomats here he s diplomats worried that new communist party chief yuri andropov may have had to pledge a tough anti washington line and big weapons buildup to win military support. they would like the american delegation to meet with andropov after the funeral monday, but have no assurance the meeting will be arraigned here was a guy who came out of the soviet intelligence community you had the feeling during and drop-offs period that, you know, things were really inert. and the old generation was still still running the country my family was simply terrified. a great grandfather was crews shift. it was said the general secretary of the communist party of the soviet union khrushchev dismantled or as much as he could, he dismantle the kgb after stalin s death. so i m drop-off as my mother was convinced, was going to come back at us and the family with a vengeance. and there was even a talk that the gulags are going to be reinstated he is going to push forward certain policies including international policies as leader of the soviet union. andropov takes his operation rayon charts from the kgb back rooms to the heart of soviet policy you re andropov is a very conspiratorial figure. he is convinced that the united states is seeking domination over the soviets and ultimately a nuclear victory and then so the soviet union has to be completely and utterly prepared to push that button all eyes are now on reagan in this uncharted new landscape reagan was adamant that he is not going to deal with this red, red and for and rope of reagan, was that cow boy who s going to destroy the soviet union because he was playing an oldest films like john wayne reagan, and drop him always found each other neither of them would be a cough this was moment when we were really scared of the nuclear war that really stayed with me as the scariest time that i ve ever experienced in my life. and the soviet union the opposing sides and the cold war could not be further apart britain s double agent is now vital to understanding the level of andropov his paranoia he s got access to the operations being were on against the united kingdom by intelligence officers in the embassy and he s got a knowledge of the politics of moscow god, yes, get of course was able to brief his handlers on the gossip he knows a lot of people in the system and therefore, he s got this unrivaled insight into how decisions are taken, how they think in the senior reaches of the politburo he would be able to leave the embassy on a regular basis and to a safe house where he would be debriefed and if he could smuggle documents out of the embassy so much the better and the b arrangements for copying those in the safe house gordy? yes. skis actions make him so valuable. mi6 decides to inform ten downing street in? december. 1982 margaret thatcher is told that a highly placed kgb spy now works as a double agent for the british but she isn t told his name two months later, gordy ascii provides crucial intelligence operation. reihan is now official soviet policy what the soviets didn t understand is that there was a possibility that operation reihan could be a self-fulfilling prophecy operation reihan was perfect example of starting with a conclusion and then looking for justification for that conclusion. agents were asked are the americans and the british on the verge of nuclear war they were asked, proved to us find the evidence that they are, so that we re be ready for it. and that was the fundamental flaw with operation rayon we were instructed to watch for signs of special activities greetings within particularly by night. blitz, windows of the means of defense, and 40 law office. the american embassy, wrecking overtime until early morning hours what you like that jeff skate really brought was an insight, understanding of what operation rayon was really about it we re showing a paranoia but the paranoia was real asu, they very seeing reports the number of clauses was slowly, slowly growing visuals lucky the point, yes they re preparing when two sides don t know one another, they both misread signs you can see how dreadful things can happen by that kind of misunderstanding gardi of skis intel on the deepening soviet paranoia is so vital to the british that they must conceal their source even from the american the reason the british did not want the americans to know who gordy xq was, was the more people who know the name of a source the more imperiled the source becomes. reagan doesn t have the luxury of the brits inside knowledge. he feels the most effective approach is to scare the soviets into backing down he takes a brazen and terrifying new stands cnn special event. it s time to celebrate freedom progress and the trail blazers. he paved the way this is a festive day for all black americans. we still have a lot of work to do joins cnn s victor blackwell for a native interviews and performance is by john legend smoke robinson and so much more cnn special event, june celebrating freedom and legacy. wednesday, june 19 at ten when cnn i have relapsing a mess but i still want to spend my time my 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blamed for the cold war. they re both to be blamed for all these nuclear weapons. there s an moral equivalence between the two. ronald reagan was saying there s no moral could lead us, pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness. they are the focus of evil in the modern world everybody suggest this was, and how inflammatory this was. people worried that this cowboy from the west was irresponsible and he could blow us all on reagan s approach is to aggressively arm europe as a way to force the soviets to back down the whole idea of whether you were taught tough or soft on communism was still very much part of our political landscape. he decided to assure the right wing of the republican party that he was tough on communism. and i was dismayed because what is the strategy to call somebody? the global center of evil, if you insult people publicly, you ll have a hard time getting cooperation out of them. reagan also promotes a defense system nicknamed star wars these space lasers would identify and prevent incoming nuclear missiles its critics ridiculed it as unrealistic but the prospect of taking the nuclear arms race to space terrifies andropov there s the idea that we need to be very strong the only way to deter the soviet union from any kind of regression is to show them that they cannot win. and anything second thing that was going on was that we re going to increase our defense spending quite a bit in the soviet unique can t do that. they can t keep up with us. so we re going to spend them into oblivion. as reagan ramps up his rhetoric, a drama unfolds on the other side of the world that threatens to push the cold war over the edge governments around the world have expressed indignation over the soviet union s action and shooting down a korean jumbo jet over the cluster and pacific. the un security council will take up that incident later today. that tragedy later today, it s now reported that at least 50 of the 269 people on that jet were americans. the search goes on for the planes wreckage the crisis of our flight deck below seven just about half were korean, japanese, and taiwanese the free world was outraged once it s no exaggeration to say that western governments have been stunned and evening little frightened what s the news comes at a soviet had shut down the korean airliner, ronald reagan mediately goes on national television and uses every dirty word for their behavior that he can find. the source what can be said about soviet credibility when they so flagrantly lie about such a heinous act the soviet union becomes very defensive, very quiet, and makes no apologies at all. the military in moscow explain the korean jumbo was spying. so our missiles brought it down hi, my name s is robert mental cable news network. wondering if you will be having any type of statement not to say about the carolinas, not thank expect one soon. so that drove people in the west, especially conservatives like me, to think, boy, they are even worse than we thought they were. the incident raises the frightening thought that the finger on the soviet nuclear trigger could be as unstable as the individual who gave the order to shoot down the korean airliner it sparks protests and condemnation around the world i mean, there was really significant fear that this was going to lead to something big and extremely, extremely dangerous when the competition is a nuclear competition spying is extraordinarily important the russians were trying to spy on us we were spying on them it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust i was telling frank everything got that a control this is a war. the secret was secrets and spies, a nuclear game. sunday at ten on cnn, apartments.com. let s any landlord find qualified renders and signed leases and collect payments from any place even here and whirs here, he sled dave and ada apartments.com, the place to list of place every time i need a new phone, i had to switch carriers. 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questions. so we have answers like how to keep your yard looking, luck bush, which paint color matches your bold style with my lows rewards credit card, you can say 5% every day. you got this and we got, you doctors preferred better science, better results. chasing life with dr. sanjay gupta. listen wherever you get your podcasts in late 1983 piece hangs in the balance between the east and the west in a bid to be ready for soviet nuclear attack west launches able archer it s an annual military operation. but this year s exercise is more realistic than before 40,000 us and nato troops gather across europe right on the ussr s border. april archer was a normal military exercise by dado command to prepare naval forces in europe for an attack from the soviet union. but the way it was done was not normal at all the nuclear component of the exercise was hyped up the idea of it was make this as realistic as you could possibly make it the western powers show an almost naive ignorance of how this huge training exercise will be received in the ussr for andropov, it looks like his operation rayon prophecy is coming true they really see much more cables payable agile i knew, it wasn t dramatic moment i knew moscow was nervous and it came i m at a very sensitive moment for moscow that it had been humiliated on the global stage following the downing of that jet in particular. so every move was interpreted probably to a larger degree than it should have. b52 bombers with nuclear capabilities now arrive at the us airbase in germany andropov watches everything unfold from his hospital bed the soviet people are unaware of their leaders declining health as he keeps his hands firmly on the reins of power they re all puffy is dying, but he s clutching that red button. she really thinks if it s not him, who else he s in charge the soviet scrambled to respond nuclear submarines are primed and ready soviet troops are put on a 15 combat standby oh, ola go dfc probably was the one person who could convey to western sources what was going on inside the mind of soviet leadership at the time of able archer ascii helps his handlers realize that they re dealing with sheer paranoia at the hands at the top leadership in the soviet union. now unfortunately, it didn t come in time enough for this exercise to be canceled the exercise continues oblivious that a nuclear confrontation is now just a phone call away. but it s again, but i mean, it but it s not a game too. and i think what happened is that everything got out of control. this is just something that people can t comprehend that human error could bring the end of the world people just can t absorb that ultimately, you i kind of have this mid udacity. you believe in you own propaganda of your own greatness. you re in the control of the state all russian and soviet dictator s the problem is they always think that the, the last line of defense you are in power you have the right to if you decide to destroy it. so nobody else forget the united states doesn t even notice that the soviet der, on edge. they didn t even put the soviet reaction into ronald reagan s presidential daily brief before andropov can act, the able archer operation wraps up on schedule andropov is finally persuaded he that this really was just an exercise. this time life contribution was explained that this is dangerous you ll playing with fire the liver simply daughter the stands and intelligence. old russian leaders they able archer exercise world came very close to nuclear war the united states didn t know the ratchet down the tension when it really matter that is an indicator of just the lack of understanding that the united states and the soviet union headed each other. but in a nuclear confrontation, lack of understanding can have catastrophic consequences when adversaries have nuclear weapons pote
and the pros so far, she s put up 30 points on a couple of occasions. she s also had games where she s been held the single-digits, she struggled a turnovers. she struggled with the leeks physicality, and every player on team usa does have senior level international experience. eight have played in the olympics still, only 22. clark has created an absolute frenzy of interest in women s basketball, which has already led to this tangible boost in the wnba s developed litman. her entry to the pros has come with an extremely divisive undercurrent. and this is just the latest thing that she s going to have to navigate now, as everybody figures out what the official roster will look like. yeah. i m sure we ll continue here about that and that controversy carolyn manner. good to have you. thanks so much. and thank you for spending a part of your morning with us inside politics sunday with manu raju was nice. we ll see you back here next weekend. have a good day. taking this stain. israel makes a movie in gaza. president biden tries to outshine donald trump overseas, are refused to believe that america s greatness is a thing of the past while at home the vice president calls trump s conviction disqualified. cheaters don t like getting caught and exclusive details on a new plan to further overhaul immigration. well, progressives concerns plus retribution. i would have every right to go after them new reporting publicly because promise payback. thanks. have consequences. they going to have consequences as i should. and perseverance a rising democratic star confronts a debilitating terminal diagnosis when it comes to eunice progressive is not a good thing to be. our exclusive sit-down ahead inside politics that s reporting from inside the corridors of power starts now morning. welcome inside politics it s sunday, um, when roger president biden woke up in france this morning after he spent the last several days warning about the risks to democracy and marking the 80th anniversary of d-day. yet as he tries to ensure american allies, but the us commitment to the world order, biden has not mentioned donald trump, munch by name, not once during his pair of major speeches but the contrast he s trying to draw is clear as he seeks to reframe the race and take on his major vulnerabilities. knew this morning on that front, cnn has breaking news and how the president is trying to address one big weakness with a major policy more on that in just a moment. but first he and his team are dealing with the aftermath of that israeli operation in gaza that rescued four hostages. gazan officials say at least 274 palestinians were killed. cnn senior, senior white house correspondent kayla tausche is lie from paris. so kayla, how s the presidency addressing the fall of this recipe? q operation manu, the white house says, it s supports all efforts to secure the release of hostages still held by hamas, including americans, whether that s by negotiations or by other means here in france, president biden and president reagan macron have reiterated the need for an immediate ceasefire, but this all comes as biden is wrapping up a multi-day trip to france, where he has tried to set himself apart from his gop opponent as president biden memorialized war heroes in normandy, church, remarkable bravery on that day. his reelection campaign released this. a good commander in chief is somebody who gives veterans knocking donald trump in a new ad as unfit to serve. the aim to distinguish biden from trump on defense with this week s decorum on display pledging unwavering support for european allies. we will not, we will not say it again, walk away where trump is non-committal. i ve been saying, look if they re not going to pay, we re not going to protect okay. in speaking from the cliffs, american troops scaled on d-day for the fortunate heirs because of a legacy of these heroes, biden, earning comparisons to a republican ronald reagan are armies are here for only one purpose to protect and defend democracy. who 40 years ago was also selling voters on a second term so far, they re not sold according to one recent poll, independence favor trump over biden by 12 points, trump traveled to normandy d2 to mark the d-day 75th. today we remember those who fell, but after his speech attacking democrats in an interview her name, it s nervous magic that she s a nervous wreck. trump later came under fire for skipping a visit to a cemetery outside paris, reportedly calling the americans, buried their losers, something he s denied, but biden doesn t want people to forget telling campaign donors last week, he said they re losers and suckers who in the hell does he think he is in just a few hours, president biden is scheduled to visit that very cemetery outside paris before departing france the trump campaign. meanwhile, for its part calls the biden team desperate and says it s president biden, who s been disrespecting service members, manu, tausche in paris. thank you and now there s a lot to unpack, so let s break this all down with our great panel this morning. seung min kim of the associated press said harnden with the new york times, cnn s isaac dovere, and moralizing with npr. good morning. all right. great. thank you guys all for joining me today. a lot to discuss. that was an interesting trip over the last several days. what s interesting of course, as we all know that elections are typically decided by the economy. but this is an election, of course, it has two wars that are raging overseas. there are the biden has been making the case about democracy that says major selling point. this is how voters view how the issues that are important to them, economy number 130, 1% immigration number two, we ll talk about that in a second. presumably think democracy is 16%, but still the issues about ukraine and the israel-hamas war ranking lower down sudden when you cover the white house for the associated press, how does the biden campaign believed that these issues, foreign policy issues, may have an impact or do they not think you ll have much of an impact come november well, there s a lot contained within that foreign policy category. obviously, we know that one of their biggest weaknesses is the biden administration s handling of the war in gaza, which has really dissolute progressive disillusioned progressives and young voters when the, on the issue of democracy, which you can also put into this foreign policy category, as we have seen over the last several days with president biden and france, they believe that is a really fundamental issue that unites not only their coalition, but kit gets those independent voters, those so-called nikki haley voters that we have seen persistently turnout in these primaries. they believe that that is something that could attract them to their sayyed. and that s why you saw that s one of the reasons why you saw biden speaks so forcefully in these issues over the last several days, he never really said the words donald trump, but you see the political subtexts. you can t help but see that contrast that president biden and his aides are trying to implicitly make against you know, someone like donald trump who disparages the nato alliance, who has said, who has given the green light to putin to do whatever he wants and biden says that is not the way and you really invokes the memory of d-day invokes the the honor of these army rangers to say what would they ask us? to do? we they would ask us to. one quote was vanquish hateful ideologies and you can t help but think that president biden was thinking about donald trump at that moment and look, but you talked about trump versus biden on some of these issues, isn t voters view them according to recent quinnipiac paul preserving democracy as joe biden i ll play a lot seven points, but he is losing. he s underwater. and what the israel-hamas more in russia ukraine, war, morrow i mean, what do you explain that? because trump is barely talked about what is policy is on the israel-hamas war or on ukraine for oh, he s been pretty clear on ukraine. he was impeached the first time because he held up military aid to ukraine. but about how to end this war. yeah, you know, except for that he d ended on day one. what this one was the president. but what s interesting about that, the bad numbers on gaza are about internal democratic divisions that young people and progressives are angry with biden about that. i think that as if biden can succeed in conflating foreign policy in the threat-to-democracy, which is pretty high up on those list of concerns foreign policies way down. but democracy is way up. if you can conflate them, i think that can help them. and what really struck me about the president and europe the things he said could have been said by any president. in other words, of course, we re going to defend democracy and our allies. but because he s running again, someone on a pretty openly authoritarian platform who said nice things about putin disparaged nato allies said, we don t really deserve belong in ukraine. it s not our fight. that s what made this contrast. so explicit want to turn to what you have is what you, some breaking news here about a major issue that president is going to confront and dealing with immigration. right now, if you look at this is isaac story from this morning, biden nears huge next move on. immigrations. you tries to win over latinos in key states this past week, he moved forward in an executive action that angered a lot of folks on the left to try to clamp down on migrant crossings at the southern border. this time a shift. what is it? what are reporting is that the president is very close to moving forward on what would be the next round of executive actions. it would be to make work possible legally for long term undocumented immigrants who are married to americans it sounds like a small group. it s actually about 800,000 people, predominantly latino, when you think about the effect that this haves, it s not just on those people themselves, it s of course, on their spouses under kidd on their whole networks around them, that really makes a reverberating effect through millions of people. by the way, many of those people concentrated in arizona, nevada, georgia, places of the president has been behind a specialty with latinos. there s a political benefit here, but to folks who are been involved with this, this looks a lot to them like daqqa to 0.0 this time, 2012, it was june 15, 2012, barak obama created the daca program for people who had been brought here as children, unknowingly to, so that they could be legal status that to a lot of people was one of the turning point moments for obama s reelection campaign. there is a deep desire to replicate that both in terms of the policy effect here and in terms of the political effect. yeah the political factors. one thing we ll look at it right now. obviously, both polls showed that biden is struggling with on the issue of immigration is what it is major vulnerabilities, but had a biden s bars versus trump s supporters look at the idea of undocumented immigrants and whether they should be able to stay in the us legally if certain requirements are met, the recent pupils that 85% of biden supporters would are supportive of that. but just 32% of trump s supporters such a divide here, but it s clearly he s moving. you could say, to the left to try to placate those concerns is hearing one, how he s been heroin and certainly i think it reflects the kind of cross pressures he s feeling. when the number of issues not only immigration before in policy, this is a president who s tried to be everything to everyone in a lot of points. and with on both the border. and i think in foreign policy you ve seen the difference the gold teeth on that. i think that biden. okay. man, obviously with this is a strip that has flipped to a political liability and i think it s because democrats have not had an affirmative position on a lot of these issues. they have been able to criticize donald trump and republican actions, but there has not been a unified view from both top of the party to the base. well, what to do about immigration? and once you do a look abroad, but i think it s important that we don t see these issues as completely separate. when people talk about the economy too often bring up the fact that we re, that we re giving a lot of money into ukraine in israel when people talk about foreign policy, they ll bring up preserving democracy. these things are working together and also biden s perception, even things like age, the perception of him is not in the driver s seat of kind of events, but reacting to advance, it s something that happens on the foreign policy states that is contributing to his perception of unpopularity domestically. so these things are all kind of all working together to create a really difficult picture for this president. but i think what we re seeing now is the is the white house trying to take a more active role in shaping ahead of this debate so that by the time donald trump makes these arguments, he can point to very specific things that he has done recently specifically on the issue he has someone isaac mentioned about the impact that leads me like dog got the biden team looks kinda views this as darker. 22 of you covered this very closely at that time biden has struggled since then, with hispanic voters. this is having any impact. do you think with that key demographic or is this something similar in any way to what obama did more than a decade ago? well, i was i was talking with some some people who work in this space and there s so much anger after the border executive action that the president role that this week, that there s some thought that they might not even want to praise whatever affirmative action that the administration roles that that would help these undocumented immigrants. but i think another thing to remember too, is that president obama in 2014 rolled out something similar on executive action that was actually blocked by the supreme court. and it was never implemented. and now i m sure biden s team i m sure biden s lawyers are trying to make sure to craft this proposal in a way that they feel could withstand scrutiny. but first of all, the supreme court is a lot more conservative now than it was in 24 14. and he s already going to he could do these things either on the border or on that. it could get blocked by the courts. and then what does that do? then what does that do? those people who he s trying to thwart such a good point, but i m sure republicans will have something to say. this as well. all right coming up next is retribution on the ballot in november i ll dive into president trump s former president trump s new calls for revenge. and my reporting on how far his party is willing to go to back them up get a vote for trump. now i 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number at that powers are own with the security features we need. because my businesses are my life let s, talk was a blow it up. so whatever s next, we ll cook in which by gnats make switch to the partner businesses rely on before i would earth, would we have schreiber tonight? did nine on cnn vice president kamala harris, making news overnight and going on the attack and even going a bit further than her boss taking aim at donald trump in the aftermath of his felony conviction. speaking to michigan democrats last night. here s called trump, a cheater and said he thinks he is above the law. she said that should be disqualifying for anyone who wants to be president of the united states. but how is the rest of the political world responding to the guilty verdict in my new reporting this week with any grayer, we speak to some of the most vulnerable republicans and democrats and find it s often the democrats unwilling to speak about the verdict while swing district republicans rally to the former president s defense and have no pumps with a convicted felon at the top of their ticket by panels back to discuss this isaac use put a lot time with kamala harris. what do you make of the fact that she s going further down again and then biden i in april, spent a bunch of time with her, wrote a piece about how she is really embracing the campaign and the campaign aspects of things which is looser, swinging harder at trump. she also at this book moment, it does not have a direct opponent, right? we re waiting for donald trump to pick a running mate. we ll see who it is, but that puts her in this position where she can continue just going at trumping going at it, him in a way that i think actually speaks to where a lot of the democratic voters would like more democrats to be the response from joe biden and from the biden campaign overall, to donald trump s conviction is just stays convicted felon, not really talk about the details of it, and not really talk about it that much even at all and that has struck a lot of democrats in the wider world as a sort of strange approach. given that they would like you to brace as you may get more part of your message their goal here is to beat donald trump and part of that would be from making him more disqualified in the eyes of voters, harris went right out that and by the way, she went right at it at a democratic party in michigan democratic party event rather, and michigan that is where i think we should expect to see her much more over the course of the next six reminds me of her presidential campaign, you know, justices on the ballot. common harris prosecuting the case against donald trump. these were all kind of ethos is that were part of the original premise of her as a politician. i think that is going to be the rozi place to isaac s point, to be two, to actually be able to make the case in a more direct way than joe biden. well, but at the same time, we haven t seen real returns from this and especially because on the public side, that conviction has not registered as a huge shift. we were following the news there are times polling about what actually moved people after the conviction. and you saw two points moving away from from trump to biden, but some of that was drop-off, just the interest in third-party, some of that. but the landscape is really messy around this conviction, but it s not telling the sea change and last year when we were talking to democrats about the premise of biden s campaign part of it was a belief that the legal problems will make donald trump inherently uncollectible. we have not seen that come to fruition and so what the harris is doing, i think it s to try to make that true in a way that democrats have not been able to kind of make that reality such so far, but their belief that they would inevitably happen has not come to pass. and we re going to dive a little deeper. about the impacts are not at bag will have on the numbers in the next segments. thanks for that good there was going to board a cub meanwhile, we ve heard to trump and just talk about retribution and what does that exit mean? who really knows, but this is what he s talking about. this is his messaging in the aftermath of his conviction will revenge, just take time. i will say there has births and sometimes revenge can be justified. feel i have to be honest. sometimes they can it s very terrible thing. it s a terrible precedent for our country. does that mean the next president does it to them? that s really the question. when this election is over, based on what they ve done, i would have every right to go after them i mean, sure. he s rallied the base in the aftermath of the conviction, but is at risk of going too far. there might be the thing that struck me about donald trump s campaign is how much it s been base oriented, how much he doesn t seem to care about those independence or nikki haley voters he s just really been ever since the beginning of the political yeah, this is his theory of the case. it s like a cable news business model. you don t have to a bigger audience, they just have to watch him 24/7 how much money you raised so that but but i think that the republican party has fallen in line. i mean, some of his supporters are calling for jailing alvin bragg, something for supporters are calling for executing the alvin bragg, but and to a person, there behind him, will it have a risk? certainly we haven t seen that in the polls so far, but this is a race that s going to be won or lost on the market a tiny little shift of voters could make a big difference in battleground states speaking up, falling in line yes, i spoke to i spoke to a number of the sum of those vulnerable republicans in the house. so people will represent districts that joe biden won some districts even by double-digits. and i asked them, you have a convicted felon at the top of the ticket. are you still going to support now that trump has been convicted, are you planning on supporting him in november versus joe biden yes. yeah i already he voted for him in the primary november the way this is about the american people. i have no issues in supporting donald trump for president the united states. he s the republican nominee on the republican yeah. a lot of my constituents are i think even more than supportive now because democrats went way too far. having a convicted felon and a district like yours hurt republicans. my district school, a very smart people with firm grasp reality. they can smell give a comment that last one was caused the tom king junior who did not respond. the other ones indicated they did look at another political universe you have a candidate who has some baggage. you re vulnerable member, you run away from, you don t want anything to do with them. this is the trump era when republicans are fine, he s a convicted felon. they ll side with his messaging when i was watching that, i was reminded a lot of the dynamics that we saw after the access hollywood tape in 2016 when we did see some on endorsements, but most of the party rally behind him because they know they re the republican lawmakers you talked to. they ve either accepted or maybe are residing to the fact that president trump is their party s nominee. and they know they cannot lose their base of supporters if they want to win they do need to attract the independent voters, which is why they say things like, well, we re supportive of trump, that we don t like the verdict and all that, but let s talk about the economy let s talk about immigration. that s how they tried to broaden their own coalition of voters. and i was just blast for the past manu, but remember when joe heck in 2016 shamelessly on endorse trump on live tv after access hollywood, i remember strategists at the time saying that s kind of where his campaign started going downhill because you really need to cole are really bring together, consolidate your own based first. yeah, good, good reference and then 2012, there s also but it was also the dynamic here is that there are republicans in the swing districts who are fine with endorsing trump than the love vulnerable democrats, vulnerable senate democrats in these purple-ish, even red states. and whether they are going to talk about the trump guilty verdict do you think that i will come back to trump verdict? was did they get this correct? the trump verdict, the jury in new york the jury decision, and they that s their that s their decision. and we ll see with an acceptance, did the jury get it right in new york? sayyed put out a statement. i ve said what i ve said. do you support that meantime, there are republican opponents have come and gone after them with ads. tim sheehy and montana put out an ad saying that jon tester, who s running against them standing on the attacking him for the verdict and sherrod brown is a bone-in tagging him over the verdict in these members don t want to talk about was that tell you well, look, i mean, that s montana now it s the very republican state and job bob casey s from pennsylvania. i think that that s trays and look, i think that this is the tension they re facing. look, i had a story a couple of days ago that was also a bad the biden campaign s outreach beginning to republicans and i think it is definitely the case that republican leaders, current republican leaders please do not want to have any sunlight between them and donald trump, but among a lot of former republican leaders, there is now some connections going on to the biden campaign. and the question that a lot of them raised to me is how many republicans looking voters are there out there who maybe don t want to say it publicly. but who once they go into the voting booth, pulled the curtain tight, we ll actually not vote for donald trump or even vote for joe biden. maybe skip it or vote. that is a huge question. for the rest of the campaign. all right, up next, our first hint is at how trump s verdict is sitting with voters will dive into this week s polling and hero why some voters could be and the brink of switching sides the cnn presidential debates, june 27th, nine live. i m cnn and streaming. and it s never a good time for migraine especially when i m on camera. that s why am i go-to is nortech ott for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura. and there preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. it s the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent all in one don t take if allergic to near taco dt allergic reactions can occur even days after using most common side effects are nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain people depend on me without a migraine. i can be there for them to talk to your doctor about neuro check ott today my name is braden i only 5-years-old when i can thank you seen jim how trains shore and down the story shell, and then having these headaches that want to go away my mom she was just crying what they. said. their son has brain cancer it was your worst fear coming to life watching your child grow up is the dream of every parent. you can join the battle to save the lives of kids like braden by supporting st. jude children s ends research hospital families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food. so they can focus on helping their child live what they ve done for me, my son, my family sorry it s a gift especially for a child battling cancer call or go online and helps save the lives of children. like braden now, i know 11-years-old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain and they they saw something in my throat let s thyroid cancer it was heartbreaking to find out he has cancer again, but we knew who we have behind us it s a gives me hope you can make a difference. joined with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month. and we ll send you this st. jude teacher without st. jude or its donors. we would have been in a bad place these kids, they ve done nothing wrong in the world finding a cure for childhood cancer may means everything helps st. jude give kids with cancer a chance artificial intelligence is transforming agriculture advancing healthcare, and strengthening small businesses. this game changing technology is supporting every sector of america s economy. today, america leads the world in ai because our companies are investing billions in this new technology but china now wants to leap ahead of america and become the global leader in technology. are leaders in congress need to stand up cleaner, and enjoy a spotless house for $19 closed, captioning brought to you by guilt visit guilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, it house the designers that get your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurrying, they ll be gone in a flash designer sales at up to 70% or so of guilt.com today it s been ten days since donald trump became a convicted felon now, we have an early sense on whether it s having any impact at all on voters while new polling shows there are some small size of shifts. broadly speaking, it has not made much of a dent in trump s standing, at least not yet. new poll from fox news shows the former president still ahead several key states, except notably in virginia, where the poll shows the race is tied. and of course, president biden won virginia in 2020 by about ten points or panel is back just a little bit deeper than that fox news poll about how independence, what they view, this has an impact in these swing-state, the hush money verdict the guilty verdict their 29% of voters in virginia say it matters up to 44% in florida, then you have the doesn t matter, 68% in virginia, all the way down to 52%, say it doesn t matter now we don t know that that means whether they re going to actually vote or they will vote but it doesn t seem to be. again, not a game changer. look, we always said this was the weakest of all the cases against him. it turns out it s the only one that s probably going to happen before election day and most people say it s not going to change their votes. npr, pbs, marist had a poll, 60 something percent said it won t change their votes, but 17% said they would, and that matters in a battleground state. so it might happen around the edges, but the biden campaign has to figure out how to make it matter. i don t think they re very clear yet on the best way to do that instead, you had actually been speaking to some of these voters throughout the course of these legal cases in your podcasts, you talked to a voter about whether they would switch to biden. this was someone who had said they were going to vote for trump and now will they switch vote for biden now that he s a guilty guilty in this case? so i was thinking along the lines of the january 6. now i m comprising yup. if you went after my mat and you re able to get them on something like that. that might make me change my mind, but this being a big item on i m sorry. it just doesn t sway me. i think it was a crime i am that in another world, if he was another person and nobody would have touched it, would you? this? is an arizona republican voter. cells as mine hasn t changed. yeah, this is part of two groups we spoke to. the first, which includes cart, was people who had set in the october york times paul, that if trump was convicted of a crime, they would change their mind. they would start that they were trump supporters will be open the backing biden was about 7% of people. now, when we call it a lot of those folks back as new york times polling was doing over the last week, almost universally they were having added caveats to that opinion, say, oh, was a different case as kurt said, or maybe if it turned out or maybe the facts were more but they folks weren t really changing because because of this but when we call back to the majority of voters in the general national survey, you did see one to 2% of movement away from by, away from trump toward biden. and so that can to the point about margins make a small difference. but i would caution against saying this doesn t matter at all. donald trump s donald trump s legal problems have been ingested by most people well, and it s part of the reason democrats have done better and things like the midterms as far the reason joe biden has a narrative to tell swing voters in independence, because oftentimes it has come back to hurt donald trump. donald trump is a weak general election candidate, partially because of these things, all of the polling would tell us that republicans will be better served if someone else was at the top of the ticket, how ever because he s going up against another week candidate and joe biden relative to each other. he s still retaining that level of support. so that s what really came through in this poli. and it s not the people did not care about donald trump s baggage, is that it wasn t enough to overcome some of the unpopularity of joe biden. that s what we re seeing. that s a little more deeper rooted. i think some democrats expect, of course, the fact that a lot of these other cases almost certainly will not get reach a verdict november then it shows you that voter may not be swayed. we ll see, but i do want to turn to the other big criminal case. so hunter biden case, the president s son, there could be verdict this week. in fact, the instill question about whether hunter biden will testify. it seems unlikely he will in his own defense in this criminal case what s been we ll see what the fallout is depending on what the verdict ultimately is, what s been notable is there s been a shift a bit in trump s own messaging about this from 2022. now hunter, you got thrown out of the military. he was thrown out dishonorably discharged. that s not true. was it two years. and he didn t have a job until you became vice president. i feel very badly for them in terms of the addiction part of what they have, right now, because i understand the addiction world and i ve also not only a brother, i ve lost a lot of friends to addiction so suddenly he s changed his tune and hunter biden well, like many people saw that moment when the debate that followed that in 2020, when joe biden spoke very personally in viscerally about his son facing addiction and families of the face as one of joe biden s best moments in the campaign. donald trump seems to be responding to that. i think the other thing here is that this case is it s really complicated what happened with hunter biden here. it s not about drug use, it s about the gun charges related to drug use and trump s supporters are trump aides have said that they feel like this is not the kind of thing that they would like to be prosecuting the case on hunter on it doesn t get to the business dealings, it doesn t get to joe biden enriching himself. look, if you re going to get into complicated family dynamics with a lot of children the trump family has some you don t but speaking obviously says personal issue and the president, but politically zero concern in the biden camp about what a guilty verdict may mean for the president november they think that people will view these things separately. well, i think they re trying to make sure that these legal his legal hunters legal cases don t get conflated with what the present for the former president has been convicted of. and they are so different, obviously not only different facts, but hunter s a private citizen donald trump is the republican nominee. what what he does has a direct bearing on the american people, whereas janiot, you can i really argue that. but i think the democrats are really trying to make sure that in the eyes of the public that those two those two issues are kept separate. i think the concern among democrats is just the impact on president biden himself and he is a father. i this is his son going through very difficult moment and a moment of his life. he s got a lot going on this month. he s got the debate coming up. he s got another foreign trip later this week, and just that just weighing on him, i think that is the concern of mine. and democrats. course this past week, you would not pardon. sorry. if he is convicted all right. next is trump s search for a running mate narrowly new details from this week, including whether one possible candidate is drying too just a little too hard bathroom. so musty new fast acting drop-in tab a traps and traps excess moisture, eliminating musty the odor if we weren t proud of the craftsmanship and level of detail that go into every pair of warby parker glasses well, we probably wouldn t show you how they re made including this part which is our favorite wow and this is also great. each pair comes standard with lenses that are scratch resistant anti reflective and uv protective try five peers for free at warbyparker well done, viv, you ve got the presence, the balloons, and the raptor cake now how about something to put a smile on your or face has 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there with the sandra. as your doctor if it s right for you pods spring moving segall has been extended, save up to 25% i m moving in storage until june 10 and cy pods, it s been trusted with over 6 million moves, don t wait, use promo code 25. now to save, look at pot.com today, maria and julio thought their life would never slow down then one day it finally you will make to find inner peace we will make to track flight prices to paradise this making you uncomfortable. good. when you ve got type two diabetes like me, you have up to four times greater risk of stroke heart attack, or worse death even when meeting your a1c goal. discomfort can help you act. i m not trying to scare you. i m empowering you to get real with your health care provider talk to them about lowering your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death this is cnn the world s news it s betting season, that time of year when the presidential standard baer and his team intensify their scrutiny of a possible running mate, several potential trump vp picks have now received vetting materials and two of them, senator joe jd vance, and note dakota governor doug burgum joining trump on a west coast swing this week. trump s as you re announcing his choice at the republican national convention next month and fouls back. okay, mara, your crystal ball, where do you think that trump it lands here. i mean, there s obviously there s a list of running mates. you can see on your screen where it knows it s hard to make predictions, especially about the future and about, and about. look, this is the most normal part of donald trump. this is he picked mike pence last time. totally normal. he wanted the evangelical community. mike pence was the ambassador to that constituency. totally understandable in this case. he has a couple of choices. he can pick a person of color, reach out to minority voters or you can pick doug bergen, burgum and increase his credentials with the business community. some of some of whom are a little nervous about him, or he could double down on maga and go for a jd vance? yeah. what he s gonna do. i don t know. but in the past we know that he s done the normal thing. yeah. that would be a burgum pads speaking of burgum is how the washington post put it broken is viewed by some trump allies, is trying too hard, but trump seems to have genuine personal chemistry with them according to people familiar with the matter, i mean, trump also wants loyalty. obviously, there s anyone does a particularly trump loyalty. trump s all else pun intended. i find it interesting that they think, or they are some advisors think they re doug burgum is trying too hard because so many of these vp candidates are really auditioning without saying they re jacking for the position and you mentioned jd vance and burgum campaigning out with with president trump. jd vance was asked about this. you have tim scott, i believe spending $14 million on an ad campaign. they re doing a lot to try to get that vp slot. they re just not saying that. yeah. there s the question of does it help in other parts of the ticket, tim scott, maybe helps with black voters. trump just got to hello percent supportive blackboards in 2020, at least to phonic. she up with women. he just got 42%. he s gonna do better in both groups, but vice presidential candidates don t always change the equation. yeah, we often have this kind of discussion with them when we know this is going to be probably about the top of the ticket with it does du obviously set up a vice presidential debate between this person and vice president harris. but i think these kind of normal calculations is what donald trump is going through. what we can bet on is the show. he is announcing this as the republican national committee. he s hoping he s hosting an apprentice like trial that was at new hampshire after the primary and when he had people speak one by one and what felt like a live audition process? we can bet on the spectacle of it all, but i do think the kind of traditional political calculus is where a lot of these things, law, it s kind of surprising, actually to see the names live rubio on the list kind of more traditional republican figures. but i think it speaks to someone who feels like he s in a good position to win this election. and this thinking more about consolidation of the party at large, rather then more firebrand type methods could even jd vance isn t as maga as he could have gone over. some people were expecting last year in quickly as it who do you think that the biden team wants trump to pick? they would like someone who doesn t bring in a lot of votes from doug burgum, like are they scared i think that that is much more on people s minds, but i do think that one thing that will be notable here as we go through this drawn out process trump does. is that a lot of these people, doug burgum said that he would not do business with trump. marco rubio said people would come to regret going trump. a lot of these people used to say that trump was terrible yeah. this is her tv absolutely absolutely. great discussion coming up or exclusive sit-down interview with a member of congress diagnosed with debilitating brain disease how she s making history and inspiring others it may show you to hear this, but this is not my real voice pods spring moving sale has been extended, save up to 25% on moving in storage until june 10, and see via pods, it s been trusted with over you re six million moves, don t wait, use promo code 25. now to save, look at pot.com today, my name age braden. i wish 5-years-old when i can changing. how trained short-run gown the story shell, and then having these headaches that when i go away my mom crying what they said, they re saying has brain cancer it was your worst fear coming to life? watching your child grow up is the dream. every parent you can join the battle to save the lives of kids leg braden, by supporting st. jude children s research hospital families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food. so they can focus on helping their child what they ve done for me, my son, my family sorry life is a gift, especially for a child battling cancer call or go online and helps save the lives of children like braden now i m 11-years-old. we were actually doing the checkup for my brain and they they saw something in my throat viroids, cancer it was heartbreaking to find out he has cancer again, but we knew who we have behind us it gives me hope. you can make a difference joined with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month and we ll send you this same as you t-shirt without st. jude or its donors we would have been in a bad place these kids, they ve done nothing wrong in the world finding a cure for talented cancer remains everything helps st. jude give kids with cancer a chance a us bank, we know how good it feels to reach your milestones. but we also know what really goes into getting you there that s why we introduced cobras, which connects you to a real banker in real time to help you do anything from adding new debit card, 30, he saves martyred even create a spending manifest chapter one with cobe rows are always they from on your own to here because there s nothing has powerful as the power of us okay, everyone our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition, are strength and energy ensure with 27 vitamins for minerals, nutrients for immune health, and ensure multi meetings they billion with a b we ve got this you got this more in liebermann at the pentagon, and this cnn closed captioning, bronchi by meso book.com if you or a loved one have mesothelial mac will send you a free book to answer questions you may have called now and we ll come to you 808 to 14000 we re back with the inspiring story of congresswoman jennifer weston. and up and coming virginia democrat who is diagnosed last year with the disease, sometimes called parkinson s on steroids. but that has not stopped her from making strides on the hill and making jokes in the process. cnn s capitol hill report or melania zona has the story it may shock you to hear this, but this is not my real voice. once a rising star in the democratic party, congresswoman jennifer waxen, flip house seat in 2018. i ve been saying since the beginning of this campaign that he s is coming to america and changes coming to virginia and that change came tonight. now, a rare brain disease has forced her into early retirement and robbed waxen of the ability to speak but that hasn t stopped her from using her voice. i hope i can show that even instability dating a diagnosis has this doesn t have to mean you are powerless and finding moments of levity and fund helps to last year at 56-years-old wac than was diagnosed with progressive supranuclear palsy to have find incurable disease that impacts about 30,000 americans described as parkinson s on steroids psp affects the brain cells that control balance, walking, speech, and swallowing. we give are you polish shakes when it comes to illness progressive is not a good thing to be as her condition began to rapidly deteriorate, the congresswoman and mom of two learn to adapt last month, weapon became the first lawmaker to use a voice app is to deliver a speech on the house floor, a history-making moment that prompted an outpouring of support, psp makes it very difficult for me to speak and i use an assistive app so that you and our colleagues can understand me she also uses the app to participate in committee hearings. she shows up every time we have a committee hearings. and she represents her people and god bless her people she s representing a getting a hell of a deal with her and so i had to communicate with colleagues and staff in all of the congressional text chains that exist, like she is absolutely like top five funniest waxen isn t the only member of congress using assistive technology senator john fetterman relies on an app to help him process what he s hearing as he recovers from a stroke in my recovery was to the point where now it s really this fetterman was so touched by waxen story that he sent the congresswoman a personal note to let her know that she is not alone. she is inspiring people by being able to perform her job because a lot of million americans have to everyday tasks can still be a challenge for weston, the capitol hill campus has not historically been very ada friendly how have you? he found the institution? do you think it s been adequately equipped to handle people with disabilities? you measure notice how it accessible of place maybe until it s you who relies on the accessibility accommodations. and weston says some of her colleagues now treat her differently. it s especially frustrating and deploying when people mistake my speaking struggles for like cognitive ability. i ve had experiences where well-meaning colleagues always men have approached me seeing hi jennifer, it soon, so like, yeah, of course i know who you are. i ve seen you hear every day for the last five years, the chaotic speaker s race in october took an added one, weston who was forced to miss doctor s appointments because of the grueling schedule that was probably the worst i felt physically and emotionally since i was diagnosed but quitting early was not something like ever seriously he entertained before she leaves congress early next year, waxed as using her platform to raise awareness about brain diseases like psp she organized an advocacy week last month, while the senate recently passed her national plan to end parkinson s disease, she s an inspiration while many would have been discouraged or lost hope with a disease like this, she is endured. she has used her struggled to help others. and now the bill goes to the president s desk, a bipartisan bill named in her honor. what do you want your congressional legacy to be i hope that one day when we have eradicated parkinson s in parkinson s isms, paton leucine even though it was too late for her to help herself. she helped countless others pretty incredible story, thanks to my balloon is known for bringing is that today? that s it for inside politics sunday, you can follow me on x, formerly known as twitter at mk raju fall the show it inside politics. and if you ever miss an episode, you can catch up wherever you get to podcasts, just search for it inside pollak up that state of the union with jake tapper and dana bash dam has guests include us national security adviser jake solvent as well as governors gretchen whitmer and christina no. thanks again for sharing her sunday morning with us. see you next time if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect new periodontics act of gumbert pair breath freshener, clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease a new toothpaste from paradise context, the dom experts. this will be a goldmine of local intel. just you wait so tell us about this corn 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