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This has been the core argument of the biden campaign, have we gotten to a point where he has won or lost that argument? >> it remains to be seen. but, yes, it is a return to normalcy. there is this huge mess, and i'm going to clean it up, i'm not going to put forward radical change, but i am going to put forward pragmatic change, whether that's health care with a public option. i am going to be able to restore our relationships overseas and bring us together domestically. and it's a pretty simple argument. again, he is not trying to be, go to the left of the party. he knows there's no space t...

Al gore could not get elected president of united states and the republicans picked up seats in the house of representatives after impeachment. karl was the architect of that. you said let's return integrity to the white house. >> we did not talk about impeachment at all. always said was george w. bush would return dignity and honor to the white house because we knew, saw in the data, the more we talked about impeachment, the more it would bring up bad feelings among swing voters. >> ed: answer that last point from you, chris. >> so when biden runs on let's return to normalcy, that might work....

Interfere in u.s. elections. lavrov claims the issue never came up, joe. >> well, this is, actually, david ignatius, we've been talking about how chaotic things have been and how crazed. this is for one minute a nice return to normalcy. it was nice. it was actually nice. i can't believe i'm having to salute somebody for doing their job and defending america, but it was nice to see mike pompeo say as he did in his defense of cia director that the russians were, in fact, trying to interfere in the 2016 election, and they needed to make sure they didn't do that again in 2020. and of course what s...

Toe-to-toe? pelosi's not in that mix. but biden is. what is the right path there? >> well, i think -- i think on-balance, more often than not for him, it is a return to normalcy. a president that's less volatile, less confrontational. and that's what i think he is selling. but democrats, i think very much want someone who is strong enough to stand up to donald trump, who, after all, chris -- let's keep in mind while we're talking about this, yesterday, sitting across -- or two days ago, sitting across from a world leader, he described adam schiff as a deranged maniac, very sick individual. he'...

Didn't move the numbers at all. 2/3 opposed it when it started and when they voted to do it. what's interesting, despite that, it kind of ended up in the same place. in each election that followed, in '76 and 2000, they won it. they won it behind a candidate who offered himself as an ant toed to the scandal. george w. bush after the monica lewinsky scanned ald ran on restoring honor and decency. whatever happens in this impeachment and however the public reacts to it immediately, it is going to change the backdrop for 2000. and i think it does provide an opportunity for a democratic to run on ...