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Have in what used to be foreign countries with no rule of law where the white house is dictating who gets prosecuted and who doesn't get prosecuted. to me, the kinds of reforms that matt mentioned about criminalizing issues, having much greater transparency in reporting to congress, would be i think a better way to go about it. >> roselyn, would you say we know a lion's share of what happened between december 14 and january 20th, or do you think this is the proverbial tip of the iceberg? >> maybe someone in between those two. we know quite a bit. but i think that there is a lot left to learn. ...

We really need to have better guardrails that congress enforces in order to see this not repeat itself. because there will be another trump if it's not trump himself it will be somebody else who tries to emulate what he did. >> roselyn, when you go through the emails -- we noticed this. it feels as if many of the doj officials -- it's almost that they knew we would be looking at these emails within six months to a year or certainly they would be more public than they were. did you get that sense going through all this? >> yeah. i think that there was some conversation, particularly by rosen, a...

Didn't. trump's effort to overthrow the 2020 election was just tweets. he really tried. a handful of people at the department of justice basically held strong. it hung on by a thread. let's dig deeper. joining me on this is andrew weissmann, a member of robert mueller's special council team and an msnbc news contributor, matt miller, msnbc contributor and roselyn helderman who has done key reporting. we leaned on much of the reporting you and others have had. i feel like we are trying to show you the instant replay, the slow motion train wreck that almost happened at the department of justice....

Appearance by phone, you may recall. joining me now is washington post political investigative reporter roselyn helderman. it's great to have you with us. your reporting today about how fixateds former president trump is on the 2020 election, certainly some of his allies as well, and he believes he'll be reinstated. what more can you tell us about that? >> yeah, we've been reporting for a little while now he is incredibly fixated on these audits that his supporters are trying to get launched around the country. there is the one underway in arizona, which is a partisan audit being run by privat...

The vote. but that doesn't give confidence to the people that you were speaking to that this war may be ending any time soon. >> reporter: yeah, well, they have not appointed an envoy for syria. that is sitting waiting to happen. there is no one engaging in the political process. at this stage we have very little leverage because assad really thinks he's won and he's got russia helping him. they're starving these people out. but that is really what is likely needed. i suspect because of her experience in decades of working on refugee issues and humanitarian issues and from the effort she's put...