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Benghazi, or about the irs, for example, if it turns out senior white house officials knew more than they're saying about what was going on and the original idea to target the tea party came from them, these are pure hypotheticals, how serious would that be? >> i think that the currency that a president has, a leader has, is trust. as it is incrementally eroded away, it hurts. i think i heard the president say he heard about this from the press. and i think the press spokesperson said that the white house had known about it for two weeks. >> eric holder didn't know about what his department wa...

That be? >> i think that the currency a president or leader has is trust. and as it's eroded away, it hurts. i think the president said he learned about this from the press. and i think the press spokesman said the white house had known about it two weeks. >> eric holder didn't know what his department was doing at all, apparently. it's all a bit odd. >> he said he recused himself and i don't know why he did. >> there is no apparent evidence he did do that. they can't find the paperwork. it's all very murky. let's take a short break. let's come back and get deep, down and personal with you, do...

Killed. and is that bad? well, no, i think they've been given a chance. and the people that have served there have done a good job. they have tough neighbors, the taliban is going to try to come back in, is it going to be a smooth path for them? no, but they had elections, they picked a president, and the country's vastly better off. the taliban we're using the soccer state yuchl stadiums the using to cut off people not to play soccer. is it perfect? no. >> in rumsfelds rules, what rule would you have for me? >> well, i thought about that cominging over here. and i put down that the art of lis...

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This administration was looking to go into iraq on the pretext of what happened on 9/11. not having that pretext they had it and wanted to use it. as rahm emanuel would say don't let any crisis go unexploited. >> i'll reserve total judgment until i've seen the whole book and read it. what i've heard i'm struck by the rich irony. this is classic donald rumsfeld. anybody that knows this guy's history knows he's the guy who wrote "rumsfeld's rules" back in the 1970s, this machavellian guide to scheme on how to survive in washington and american politics and all about making sure you're not the on...