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Instrument. it doesn't make any sense. and there's a section in the federal budget that's known as the appropriate level of the public debt. and once the debt -- the budgets are agreed on by both houses and ready to go, that figure goes in. that is the debt limit, in my view. we could use that, is whatever that budget says needs to be spent, for that year. you know, we do the budget a year ahead for the following year. that should be the debt limit. and when we vote for the budget, it should take care of it. now, i know the gephardt rule certainly was a great improvement over what we had been ...

When you pass the budget. and that's how it worked for years and years and years. that's how it worked right up until 1995, when the republicans got control of the house for the first time in a generation, newt gingrich took over as speaker of the house, and he and his fellow revolutionaries decided that that debt ceiling thing was better off not fixed. they wanted to use the threat of hitting the debt ceiling again to threaten president clinton and the country to try to get their way. so they suspended the dick gephardt rule that had fixed that problem many years earlier, and we went back to ...

Gingrich was the speaker, and after the shut down in 1996 they did manage to get their act together, they passed significant legislation. are you that confident that this president, this republican leadership, in congress can do the same thing, that bill clinton and newt gingrich did then? >> well, i think the elements for a deal are there, both in the ryan budget and the presidentness budget. i think that we've got pretty good people on both sides of the aisle at the table. real question's whether there the will and skill there to get the job done. but you know, life is about challenges. it's...

Their incredibly misbegotten approach. >> but it is ignore the cost to the american people of what they're doing. >> they also said they got elected to impose austerity, and they succeeded. we talked about the spending figure that is just a nose above the ryan budget. speaking of people coming to washington to shake things up. take a listen to what ted cruz said before he got on the floor of the senate, take a listen. >> mr. president, this fight was always about the american people who were hurting because of obama care. and unfortunately today, the united states senate is saying you don't ha...

More shifts of cost to medicare beneficiaries, more cuts to the cost of living and social security, all the things they want to do. but in the next six weeks you will see more clearly that the ryan budget and the republican efforts are going after the social insurance, which they really don't like, the social insurance you mentioned. the pillars that have really protected so many seniors and millions in this family. medicare for 30-plus years, social security for better than a quarter of a century. >> i am going to cut in, there are enough votes to pass the resoluti resolution, which means thi...