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But, i mean, is there something in his argument? and i know his critics will say it was a self—serving argument and all the rest of it and he's clearly made a lot of money from going in and all that. but that argument that says that for politicians and political argument to cut through, going into the places where there are big audiences, where people are seen in the round, everyone is three—dimensional but sometimes the prisms of westminster can crush people down to a caricature, it's kind of worth doing, actually? i think it's really interesting. - was it was barack 0bama i who said that...

It was a self—serving argument and all the rest of it and he's clearly made a lot of money from going in and all that. but that argument that says that for politicians and political argument to cut through, going into the places in the round, everyone is three—dimensional, but sometimes the prisms of westminster can crush people down to a caricature, is kind of worth doing, actually? i think it's really interesting. - was it was barack obama i who said that his campaign started by going to people's living rooms and ten people turning upl so, i guess, when we're knocking on doorsteps canvas...

Publicly at the time or do anything publicly about it at the time? >> that's a great question. and it's one i as a white house reporter and others grappled with sort of constantly. and different people have different reasons. when you put that very question to him, if you knew he was going to do this or worried he wasn't mentally fit for the job, why didn't you come out and say so? the answer is often that it wouldn't necessarily matter and they felt they could do a better job on the inside running interference. you see that thing that seemed catastrophic. you don't know the four things we jus...