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Dues extracted from their paycheck because they don't put a value on it. will those workers accept the pay raises that the unions negotiate for them? >> well, again, they're essentially told they have to be in that relationship. it's an exclusive relationship that the unions have with the employer. so they don't have an option with that. >> so that's a rather divisive workplace in the future. >> again, in right-to-work states, you don't see that division. actually, we had good people up here in michigan that came from right-to-work states. and i talked to a number of them. i actually sat with ...