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You don't want to hire giuliani or cohen as your lawyer. we're learning that clearly. he paid -- supposedly he had a deal to rig some software to inflate the figures on the drudge report and msnbc polls to show that trump was a viable candidate for the president and showed fa eed fake support. it didn't work. he paid the guy about $10,000 and put the rest in his pocket. giuliani saying you can't believe him. >> it's deeper than that. >> the significance is he said -- cohen said i did this at the direction of the president. and that's the theme we're going to be seeing for the next few months. ...

Collusion. all of a sudden, well, maybe there was collusion between some people. >> so was that a slipup or calculated? >> no, no, that was calculated. i know the government has information that is very damaging on one of my witnesses. i have that witness on direct examination. imgoi i'm going to bring it out first, soften the blow to the jury. there must be damaging information that's going to come to fruition very soon that's going to make trump look very, very bad on this collusion which, by the way, is conspiracy. it's going to come out. so giuliani is trying to soften the blow so that whe...

Attention. while we know that the chief of staff, john kelly, talked to the mueller team, we've learned this, as a result of, you know, the sentencing filings, we're also now hearing from the president of the united states, just about ten minutes ago that john kelly is on his way out. so avery, what does this signal to you? >> it signals a lot. we have several things. one of the things that strikes you about the memoranda that we saw yesterday in federal court, and the remark, come mation that john kelly is on his way out, is that the redactions tell us there is a lot more. kelly is going to b...

A farce. it is a complete farce. mueller should just throw a subpoena on him. the president will ignore it. it will be a constitutional crisis. it will go to the supreme court. and kavanaugh will get the swing vote to protect the president. that's how it is going to play out. >> oh, no. >> this is a farce right now, fred. my clients would love to respond to limited questions, limited areas, when they're being federally criminally investigated for conspiracy. it is absurd, fred. the whole process is completely absurd. >> so avery, could a subpoena still come, say, you know, the special counsel ...

Videotape, it wouldn't have mattered. all because of this, get your pen out, tribalism. this is what controls politics today. behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group with strong negative feelings for people outside the group. that's it, fred. he's in. there's nothing that's going to change that. no fbi investigation. and the three votes, those republicans, flake, murkowski and collins, they're absolutely going to vote for kavanaugh, 100%. >> so avery, during the clarence thomas and anita hill, the three-day fbi investigation, this one, a week, is...