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It is what obamacare did to force things upon them. we allow states to have those choices. that is the conservative solution. going back to your kind of ending point, there's a lot of folks covered under expansion, i just wrote an article on "the hill," i think thehill.com, we point out health care will be paid for and we might think because we don't cover through this bill society doesn't pay. i'm a physician. i've worked in a hospital for the uninsured for 25 years. society is going to pay. the other thing we point out is taking care of people's coverage is good politics. the president learn...

New orleans. professor, thanks for coming on. you don't seem like a reflexive opponent of trying something different in the public schools. what exactly is your problem with betsy devos' approach? >> i agree there need to be changes, even her starting point for school choice is a good starting point. the problem is, that's also the ending point. that's one principle, there are other principles that need to go along with this. choice, we've seen this in other places with vouchers, the virtual schools she supported. some version of charter schools, including some in michigan where the market is ...

>> i don't think anybody would argue that the last two secretaries of education are not in favor of changing things. they changed a lot and in under great controversy. they've been very aggressive, especially at the federal level. it's federal and involvement that is the issue. the issue is it the cities are not functioning well. the public schools are doing fine. in the places where they are not doing well, there should be some intervention. that choice is a good starting point. but it can't be the ending point. we need to go further. we still need to have a role for government, it just needs...

Argue that the last two co-secretaries of acute education are not in favor of changing things. they changed a lot and in under great controversy. they've been very aggressive, especially at the federal level. it's federal and involvement that is the issue. the issue is it the cities are not functioning well. the public schools are doing fine in the places where they are not doing well, there should be some intervention. that choice is a good starting point. but it can't be the ending point. we need to go further. we still need to have a role for government, it just needs to be different than t...

Professor, thanks for coming on. you don't seem like a reflexive opponent of trying something different in the public schools. what exactly is your problem with betsy devos' approach? >> i agree there need to be changes, even her starting point for school choice is a good starting point. the problem is, that's also the ending point. that's one principle, there are other principles that need to go along with this. choice, we've seen this and in r places with vouchers, the virtual schools she supported. some version of charter schools, including some in michigan where the market is left to rule ...