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Outrage other than giving lip service to it. you have to remember we're focused on the media because we're media, but there are a lot of regular people who are whistle-blowers who have had their lives turned upside down by this administration. the same administration who said they treat whistle-blowers as criminals but people who leak information like stux net or the kill list or osama bin laden are heroes because they make president obama look like some super human protector of america. everything is completely upside down here. >>brian: why doesn't she get the white house records and find ou...

Joining us now for the interview is richard clarke, the nation's first special adviser to the president for signer security and the nation's former counterterrorism chief and the chairman of good harbor, and his book "cyber war" is just now out in paperback. thank you for being here. >> good to be back. >> thinking about that iranian oil terminal and stux net, is cyber war is a way that countries are waging war with each other now? >> i think it's a way that the united states is attacking iran. you could call it cyber war, or call it covert action. it's not really important whether we call it ...