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Had, which is a tricky debate. where else has he shown hostility towards religion? >> well, we actually -- there's been a similar case going on with the eoc. a catholic university was forced to participate in contraception kovrm for their employees. you had the national labor board that ruled that xavier university was not catholic enough. we have seen reverend graham disinvite disinvited to the pentagon. >> i wouldn't ib violent him either. franklin graham is a disgrace. i don't think he's the typical christian minister, do you? with his comments on islam and his comments of partisanship? >> ...

America, then we are headed down that road. >> tony, are they your pictures? i think of the tail of two cities and the guillotine and the bad guys and good guys. and all that. does that come back to you when you watch this fight over birth control in the catholic church? are we that too far to the armageddon? >> i just watched that two weeks ago. i think the point there is that the french revolution was driven by secular platform. what we see, the policies from this administration, and going back to what you said in your opening, i don't make judgments about the president's faith, but i make c...

Patient and not the church. that's all they want. i hope. >> they spent a lot more time studying these issues. there's this hawaii model that seems to kind of thread that needle so that people feel like religion is respected but the rights of women are also considered. >> let's talk about how it happened. the former governor of kansas, a politician as much as anybody. hardly a liberal. she's not from the west side of new york. she apparently had the support from the president. this got broadened into a discussion with pelosi and women's rights groups. why did it become such a big issue? it's o...

Welcome back to "hardball." can republicans get their attack on obama straight? when he was running back in 2008, they went after him for his ties to the christian pastor jeremiah wright. remember that? then came the birther conspiracies and accusations he was secretly a muslim. then many prominent republicans stayed pleasantly silent, others stoked the flanks. now they are attacking his antichristian and hostile to all religion period. they portray the president as the other. we'll get into that with tony perkins and joan walsh. thank you so much. i want you all to watch this. we talked about...

But i actually think it's an issue that's broader than just kath lcatholic catholics. people who aren't religious want to expect religion. do you want to respect the rights of employees, but surely there's some other answer than the rule they have come up with. >> i tried not to take a position on this to try to make sure both sides are heard. it seems there ought to be a way to allow women, they have more rights and deserve to get them. can they go to work knowing they can have birth control pills if they want. if they want birth control, they should get it all. the question is what does it s...